gcelenta

Hello Everyone, my name if George and I'm new to this forum. Thanks for letting me join.


I'm looking at taking on a 928 as my next project car. Wanted to get any and all opinions recommendations on the 928 from the folks here that buy, sell, build, and maintain them.


I little background, this is a hobby for me, I know from my previous projects it is almost impossible to make any money on these cars unless it is truly your only business, and even then not easy. My goal is to fix it up the best I can, have fun driving it for some time, then pass it on to someone else and move on the the next project. My first project was a Triumph Spitfire; and then went in the total opposite direction and did a partial restore of a 2001 BW 740iL. I learned what I am good at and what I leave to the pros.


My original target car was an old 911, but there are no project cars available for that model that I can see. I'm down to 3 possible cars for my next project based on availability and price, the 928, 944, or a Z3M. Surprisingly I think I see more 928's available at reasonable prices than 944s.? So I'm going to post this same message on those forums also and then decide based on the feedback. My initial observations with the 928 is the following:

• There seams to be quite a few available because of the long production run. So finding one with a good body under 15K doesn't seem like it will be a problem? Or is it?
  
• Can this engine be rebuilt if need be? I can tell you its not the case for some of the older BMW's like the 740 and 5. If the block is damaged it cannot be restored, cannot be bored, cannot be sleeved. What's the prospect for engine restoration for the 928?
  
• Price goes way up after '86 and the bigger engine. However I can't find a manual after that year either. I'm sure the price goes way up for those if they're out there. Because of this I'll probably look for a 86 or older to get a manual at a decent price. Any thoughts here on the best years?
  
• The interiors look pretty straight forward and I've gotten pretty good interior work. Are there seat and carpet restore kits available?
  
• Parts don't look too hard to find? Again, with the long production run I wouldn't think they would be. Am I wrong?
  
• I see a lot of junked parts cars out there too, am I wrong?
  

Again, any ideas, thoughts, and recommendations, are appreciated.


Thanks,


George C

Mrmerlin

Welcome to the club,
The best way to start your journey read the FAQ at the top of the page,
it takes about 4 days.
Once you have completed this,
then you will know more about the 928 ,
and it could potentially save you thousands of dollars in repair bills

jbrob007

• There seams to be quite a few available because of the long production run. So finding one with a good body under 15K doesn't seem like it will be a problem? Or is it? Not a problem - most 928s have very little corrosion / rust, although some have been abused, parked in the grass, etc, and are beyond what I would call reasonable repair. They are the minority.
• Can this engine be rebuilt if need be? I can tell you its not the case for some of the older BMW's like the 740 and 5. If the block is damaged it cannot be restored, cannot be bored, cannot be sleeved. What's the prospect for engine restoration for the 928? The engine can be rebuilt - it's a basic V8 under the skin. Some parts can be VERY expensive, but the engine is not overtly complicated mechanically. Re-sleeving cylinders, etc, is beyond most people's expertise. There are a few who have done cylinder work, but exactly how much $$ do you want to spend?? Might be more than the car is worth... Fortunately, most 928 engines are pretty bullet proof, unless, again completely abused and neglected. Even then, the engine is still pretty solid.
• Price goes way up after '86 and the bigger engine. However I can't find a manual after that year either. I'm sure the price goes way up for those if they're out there. Because of this I'll probably look for a 86 or older to get a manual at a decent price. Any thoughts here on the best years? It depends... A LOT of people love the Old Body styled cars (86 and earlier). They are typically lighter the earlier you go and less complicated to work on... My fav is the Euro spec cars 84 - 86 (4.7 / 16 valve spider intake with 310 HP). The 86.5 USA spec cars are also a cut above because they have a lot of 87 (S4) suspension & brake bits and pretty inexpensive to chip to increase performance (Porken makes the chip set). They're not slow to begin with...
• The interiors look pretty straight forward and I've gotten pretty good interior work. Are there seat and carpet restore kits available? Carpet sets are easily available. "Good" seat recover kits are hard to come by, but the boys in Michigan (Classic 9) are exceptional. They ain't cheap, but well worth the cost.
• Parts don't look too hard to find? Again, with the long production run I wouldn't think they would be. Am I wrong? You're not wrong. Roger Tyson (928sRus); Mark Anderson (928 International); and Jeanie Roberts (928 Specialists) are the go to parts suppliers. DO NOT buy parts off of Ebay (unless you know the seller), AutoZone, etc. More often than not, you'll get the wrong part or a cheap knock off part. The internet is your friend for parts searches, but most rely upon the 928 suppliers for parts.
• I see a lot of junked parts cars out there too, am I wrong? Again, you're not wrong, but they are drying up fast... there was a long production run, but not that many produced and the parts cars are getting hard to find. Find a local 928 club in your area - they can be priceless! There are some in Ohio (928 Buckeye Landsharks), Texas, Georgia, Michigan and others I'm sure. Good luck!

hwyengr

This one is a little complicated. It was an 18 year production run, but Porsche only made as many 928s over those 18 years as they did 911s between '84-'89. Over those years there were 5 different engines, 4 or 5 different fuel management systems, 2.5 body types (counting the GTS as the half, since it had the wide rear fenders), two completely incompatible clutch configurations, and several different variants of the manual transmission. Each one of those is kind of like a little production run of its own.

Late parts don't usually fit early cars. The US 85-86.5 cars have some oddball parts that aren't interchangeable with anything. Porsche keeps a good supply of parts in production, but some pretty basic things are outrageously priced and the cheap ebay/autozone 3rd party variants have terrible reputations for quality, which makes troubleshooting the engine management system very complicated if you use those (and you can't trust that the new cheapo part you just installed actually works when you still have a no-start condition). After every batch of spares sells out and Porsche commissions another run, prices shoot up 30-40% after a 6-month+ period of being totally unavailable. (Which is how we get $600 fuel pressure dampers).

If I had it to do over again, I probably would have gone with the '80-'84 L-Jetronic cars. Usually cheaper and not as fast, but it was a very reliable injection system that doesn't have a lot of electronic brains to chase down and the US variant of the 4.7 is non-interference. The pre-'85 manual transmissions do have a reputation for being less smooth and many need new synchros, and those parts are also getting hard to find (or worth as much as the car).

All that being said, do buy the best one you can find. Bringing any 928 back from the dead will cost way more than just buying a good one up front.

NewToPig

I second buy the best you can find. You will spend twice the cost difference fixing little things on a molested car. Usually a known car from a forum member is the best move. Maintenance records are also a sign of diligence. A clean 80-84 is the easiest to maintain. My do it all over again would be to find a super clean 5-speed REGARDLESS of the price.

I will also add, don't worry about the mileage. In many cases, an often driven higher mileage car will be less of a hassle as sitting for long periods means no maintenance and threats of other problems. These engines last a long time when maintained.

Petza914

If going older body style, the best ones are the hi-compression Euro S cars as they had 300-310 HP 4.7L engines and are more fun to drive (there are 4.7L non Euro cars so you have to look at the engine #s to know for sure you're getting what you think you are. The early versions of these cars use K-Jet CIS and had M28-11 engine numbers for 5-speed cars and M28-12 engine numbers for Auto Cars. The later that Joel mentioned are M28-21 for 5speed cars and M28-22 for Auto cars. Intakes are different, heads and cams are different.

5-speeds are more expensive than Autos, but the Auto trans fits the character of a 928 fairly well. I have an 84 Euro S Auto as my Daily Driver, but prefer the engagement of driving a 5-speed, especially through mountain passes. Make sure any 5-speed you look at has good transmission synchros in 1st and 2nd gear. Many are worn out by now and rebuilding these manual transmissions is expensive and takes some special parts and know-how...Greg Brown and Precision Motorwerks in CA is the guru on 928 trans but has a huge backlog.

If you're tall (6'0" or more), finding a non-sunroof car will get you 2 additional inches of headroom, which is very welcome and let's you drive in a more upgright position than if your this height or taller in a sunroof equipped 928.

These cars are expensive to repair and maintain. You won't make money on this project and have to do it because it's interesting to you, you love the 928, and want to spend the time and money. Values are increasing, especially of the desirable models - 16v Euro S, 86.5 cars, GT cars, GTS cars.

We have a 944 S2 as well that I bought and gave to my son as his first car, and it's perfect for him - cool, not too fast, handles really well, but I prefer the size and driving characteristics of the 928 with the big v8 engines and more interior space.

Good luck on the hunt and start a build thread here once you've found the right candidate!

gcelenta

Great Info! Thanks!