Is there a market for remanufactured 928 short blocks?
06-23-2022 | 02:49 PM
#46
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,230
Likes: 2,481
From: Anaheim
My favorite horror story goes back about 4-5 years ago when I bought my 90 S4 - owner bought the car from a Porsche dealership. Customer tossed them the keys when Porsche's answer to a broken timing belt was a $25k replacement engine.
The new owner thought he saw scratches on the cylinders. Took it apart, split the girdle ordered all bearings, rings, head gaskets, had the heads rebuilt - the whole enchilada.
Then he decides to abandon that when he got an estimate for the fixing the scratches. I felt the scratches. Not even worth honing.
That's when he buys a used motor off eBay. Drops it in and it won't produce any oil pressure. Spends countless hours trying figure out the problem and finally gives up.
After the car has been sitting in his shop without an engine for a couple of years he puts it on craigslist.
I buy the 90S4 for $4500 which includes service manuals and the engine in a hundred pieces. I bring it home and put humpty dumpty back together and it runs great.
A couple of years later he visits me - he says he finally figured out why the eBay engine would not build oil pressure.
Drumroll, please....
He took it apart and it turns out it only had one thrust bearing shell.
That was my first foray into assembling a 928 engine. I say assembling because I didn't pretend to be an engine builder.
I assembled it from the parts the PO bought - I did not check clearances - I just assembled. My only screw up was not getting the girdled sealed - had to do that twice. Lesson learned.
That car runs amazingly. Oil pressure is the best I've seen. Oil pressure at startup is 5+ bars - pegged. Idle is 2.5 to 3 bars at idle and 5+ bars off idle. I can watch the oil pressure and tell you exactly when the oil thermostat opens up.
Building a good short block or a long block is not rocket science. You need the right tools to make sure the core start with is good. Bore gauge, a setting ring and good micrometers in the correct ranges and you are off to the races.
And let me tell you about the AC - it blows ice cubes - it's the original AC compressor converted to 134a and still has the black o-rings not the green ones and the non-134a expansion valves. I happen to have the best AC guy in the southeast.
People on this platform will tell you need a PH.D to work on our engines. I'm here to tell you that is BS. If you passionate about what you do - you will be fine. And don't be afraid to ask questions.
I am very choosy about who's cars I touch. I tell my customers I charge half what the commercial shops charge and take twice as long. :-)
My shop motto is: "I have fun playing with other people's cars at their expense."
My daily drivers are all 928s - I bet you will not find another 928 mechanic that boast that - well maybe Speedtoy's daughter. :-)
Now I sit back and await the pitter patter of Greg's feet as he steps all over another of my latest posts. He'll say some pretty scary things. But, don't you believe him.
The new owner thought he saw scratches on the cylinders. Took it apart, split the girdle ordered all bearings, rings, head gaskets, had the heads rebuilt - the whole enchilada.
Then he decides to abandon that when he got an estimate for the fixing the scratches. I felt the scratches. Not even worth honing.
That's when he buys a used motor off eBay. Drops it in and it won't produce any oil pressure. Spends countless hours trying figure out the problem and finally gives up.
After the car has been sitting in his shop without an engine for a couple of years he puts it on craigslist.
I buy the 90S4 for $4500 which includes service manuals and the engine in a hundred pieces. I bring it home and put humpty dumpty back together and it runs great.
A couple of years later he visits me - he says he finally figured out why the eBay engine would not build oil pressure.
Drumroll, please....
He took it apart and it turns out it only had one thrust bearing shell.
That was my first foray into assembling a 928 engine. I say assembling because I didn't pretend to be an engine builder.
I assembled it from the parts the PO bought - I did not check clearances - I just assembled. My only screw up was not getting the girdled sealed - had to do that twice. Lesson learned.
That car runs amazingly. Oil pressure is the best I've seen. Oil pressure at startup is 5+ bars - pegged. Idle is 2.5 to 3 bars at idle and 5+ bars off idle. I can watch the oil pressure and tell you exactly when the oil thermostat opens up.
Building a good short block or a long block is not rocket science. You need the right tools to make sure the core start with is good. Bore gauge, a setting ring and good micrometers in the correct ranges and you are off to the races.
And let me tell you about the AC - it blows ice cubes - it's the original AC compressor converted to 134a and still has the black o-rings not the green ones and the non-134a expansion valves. I happen to have the best AC guy in the southeast.
People on this platform will tell you need a PH.D to work on our engines. I'm here to tell you that is BS. If you passionate about what you do - you will be fine. And don't be afraid to ask questions.
I am very choosy about who's cars I touch. I tell my customers I charge half what the commercial shops charge and take twice as long. :-)
My shop motto is: "I have fun playing with other people's cars at their expense."
My daily drivers are all 928s - I bet you will not find another 928 mechanic that boast that - well maybe Speedtoy's daughter. :-)
Now I sit back and await the pitter patter of Greg's feet as he steps all over another of my latest posts. He'll say some pretty scary things. But, don't you believe him.
Yes, perhaps not "sugar coated" and not what you wanted to hear, but 100% the truth!
In your reply, you are the one that made it personal! (It's all there people....go read it!)
Now, you say "don't believe him".
What, exactly have I said, in this thread, that isn't 100% truthful???
Last edited by GregBBRD; 06-23-2022 at 02:54 PM.
06-23-2022 | 05:39 PM
#48
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,230
Likes: 2,481
From: Anaheim
And your feelings potentially get hurt.
I'd appreciate some clarity:
Are you showing these pictures to "poll the audience"?
Or is this one of your normal posts, asking for advice on how to do something?
Or are you just showing what you intend to build these "rebuilt" engines from?
I'm not being a smart ***, but, seriously, each one of the above requires a different response....from anyone!
Last edited by GregBBRD; 06-23-2022 at 05:41 PM.
06-23-2022 | 05:40 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,412
Likes: 470
From: West Chester, PA
Kevin,
If you've never used 'EvapoRust', you might get some, I've found it great for removing rust from various 'old car' parts. Just let the rusty parts soak in it for a day (or a few days).
Gary
If you've never used 'EvapoRust', you might get some, I've found it great for removing rust from various 'old car' parts. Just let the rusty parts soak in it for a day (or a few days).
Gary
Last edited by Gary Knox; 06-23-2022 at 05:41 PM.
06-23-2022 | 06:30 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,372
Likes: 196
From: Honolulu and sometimes L.A.
I'm sure you have the ability to assemble long blocks, given good parts. But mostly, I wonder if you need to. It seems to me that the hard part for most folks with block problems is that they cannot buy a known good block. You have to buy a complete engine and cross your fingers. Then you end up with tons of parts you don't need, maybe another bad block, and a huge mess. After that goes wrong once most folks don't want to try a second time. I think a good course would be to buy engines, pull them apart, and clean, inspect, test, and photograph the snot out of the blocks. Fully document the bores, the webs, the mounts etc along with magnifluxing and any other useful tests. Think good BAT ad level of documentation. Then offer them for sale at a premium. I think folks would pay 3x of 4x more for a sure bet block than they would for a shot in the dark compete engine. Of course you would have a ton of other parts to clean, document, and sell also, but that would be gravy as I think you could more than break even on blocks even if every other one was bad. Then, if you had a big pile of bad blocks and there was customer interest in repaired blocks you could try sleeving or coating or whatever you wanted. You would want to build a few complete engines for yourself and drive the snot out of them to convince yourself you could afford to warranty them. But, unless pressed to it I would avoid building engines or repairing blocks and focus on offering cleaned, tested, and documented blocks. You would only have to warranty the block was exactly as you presented it, which means minimum liability. You would want to avoid competing with Mark (you could not), but I think if you positioned this as a high end service and offered things Mark does not (I'm thinking he likes to sell complete engines) at a premium, I think you would have a shot. For sure, you would want to find out how come folks cannot just buy good blocks from Mark.
06-23-2022 | 06:33 PM
#52
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,256
Likes: 867
From: Roswell, GA
Kevin
06-23-2022 | 08:11 PM
#54
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,256
Likes: 867
From: Roswell, GA
I may be less than right about dry ice blasting for the pistons. :-)
Another adventure with new data points.
06-24-2022 | 07:28 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 63
From: London, UK
Alex
06-24-2022 | 09:38 AM
#56
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 8,256
Likes: 867
From: Roswell, GA
So, that's off the list.
06-24-2022 | 10:34 AM
#57
Rennlist Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,412
Likes: 470
From: West Chester, PA
Gary
Last edited by Gary Knox; 06-24-2022 at 10:38 AM.
06-24-2022 | 06:41 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 63
From: London, UK
Alex
