Car Damage Advice...
09-03-2021, 09:22 PM
#1
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Car Damage Advice...
A Norcal928 member, not only had a debris truck spray his car with LARGE gravel and what appears to be mixed in with crushed concrete, he got some amazing video of the truck gate open, not latched..it wasnt debris falling off the frame/etc, it was pouring out.
He has a car with a fantastic body, good paint, and great interior. Hi miles for an 88, 5spd, no rub strips, no sunroof, lsd.
If you didnt look in the engine bay, Hagerty #3 at $35k...once you add in some of the options. (Values for 928s went up a LOT in the Sept 2021 update)
But the damage is not just wholesale across the front, but up the sides, it was intense.
Its a hard to match color, and really...it all needs to be repainted.
Odds are HIGH that insurance would total the car for even a basic full repaint, because a lot is going to break coming apart, and the bill will climb quickly. One quote is at $18k, the one shop preferred, higher.
With such spectacular evidence of wrongdoing, how would he go about this in the legal system?
Bypass insurance entirely?
He has a car with a fantastic body, good paint, and great interior. Hi miles for an 88, 5spd, no rub strips, no sunroof, lsd.
If you didnt look in the engine bay, Hagerty #3 at $35k...once you add in some of the options. (Values for 928s went up a LOT in the Sept 2021 update)
But the damage is not just wholesale across the front, but up the sides, it was intense.
Its a hard to match color, and really...it all needs to be repainted.
Odds are HIGH that insurance would total the car for even a basic full repaint, because a lot is going to break coming apart, and the bill will climb quickly. One quote is at $18k, the one shop preferred, higher.
With such spectacular evidence of wrongdoing, how would he go about this in the legal system?
Bypass insurance entirely?
09-03-2021, 10:22 PM
#2
The first point of contact should be the company that owns and operates the debris truck. No attorney is needed for this, at least not to start with. They may respond favorably and issue a PO to the preferred repair shop. If they complain then an attorney is desirable. But your friend will need to have the available funds, plan on a $1.5-2k retainer to kick things off, and where it goes from there is unknown. But I t will get resolved.
However, the damage was not to the entire car, and demanding a full repaint is highly likely a non starter, especially if their insurance company steps up. And your friend can request the name of their insurance company and policy info so that he can file a claim with them. But no insurance company would agree to paint the entire car if it was not all damaged in the incident, and neither will this business if they pay the claim directly. Only the damages incurred will be covered. There really is no such thing as a hard to match color under these circumstances, he is expected to go with a repair shop that will guarantee his satisfaction.
However, the damage was not to the entire car, and demanding a full repaint is highly likely a non starter, especially if their insurance company steps up. And your friend can request the name of their insurance company and policy info so that he can file a claim with them. But no insurance company would agree to paint the entire car if it was not all damaged in the incident, and neither will this business if they pay the claim directly. Only the damages incurred will be covered. There really is no such thing as a hard to match color under these circumstances, he is expected to go with a repair shop that will guarantee his satisfaction.
Last edited by Shark2626; 09-03-2021 at 10:25 PM.
09-04-2021, 06:42 AM
#3
Instructor
Car Damage Resolution
Shark2626 is right in that an insurance company will cover the damage but not the diminished value. Your car, being an 88 will have solvent born paint, IMO, impossible to match with today's base-coat, clear-coat paint jobs...and even if match is achieved areas will fade at different rates. You may work a deal with the insurance to cover the damage and you pick up the difference for a whole new paint job. It's a thought...good luck.
09-04-2021, 08:36 AM
#4
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Personally, I would nicely contact the business owner, show them the video and see what they're willing to pay for. If that doesn't go well, I'd involve my insurance company and let them deal with the lawyers and recover the cost of the repaint the car needs. But, there's the risk if the owner didn't have an Agreed Value policy on the car, which is a huge mistake for any Porsche older than 2012 and especially 928s that have been undervalued for so long but are catching up. My supercharged convertible is insured for 6 figures and my rougher 81 Euro S for $55k.
Good luck to your friend.
Good luck to your friend.
09-04-2021, 09:06 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
This sucks. Other things to consider:
Insurance that would be on a commercial fleet is not like individual car insurance. They have a lot more insured, and a lot more at stake. If this was some yahoo in his $500 pickup truck you'd be done.
Don't give up on diminished value. I had a snap-on truck back into may 993 turbo front bumper around 20 years ago, the guy apologised and gave me his insurance. I called them with an estimate from my chosen repair shop and they offered to pay for a new bumper and repaint. (around $4000) This was a basically pristine low mileage car with all original paint so I asked them about diminished value from a carfax incident and a non original paint bumper. They told me to get a statement from an "expert" (I used a contact at the dealer) he wrote a letter saying the value was diminished by 10% after the repair...they gave me another $5000. (yes a really nice 993 turbo was around $50k then!)
Since there is a video contact to police and make a report. They might not do anything but it is a citable offense that the truck was dumping gravel (unsecured load violation) If there is a police report you would can include that and inquire who the driver was (who is very interested in protecting his CDL)
So think about who much this would all cost the insurance, the company, and the driver if you kept at it... a lot. If you can build your case the company and their insurance will 100% do the right thing for THEM (not you) and that thing just very well be painting your whole car.
Insurance that would be on a commercial fleet is not like individual car insurance. They have a lot more insured, and a lot more at stake. If this was some yahoo in his $500 pickup truck you'd be done.
Don't give up on diminished value. I had a snap-on truck back into may 993 turbo front bumper around 20 years ago, the guy apologised and gave me his insurance. I called them with an estimate from my chosen repair shop and they offered to pay for a new bumper and repaint. (around $4000) This was a basically pristine low mileage car with all original paint so I asked them about diminished value from a carfax incident and a non original paint bumper. They told me to get a statement from an "expert" (I used a contact at the dealer) he wrote a letter saying the value was diminished by 10% after the repair...they gave me another $5000. (yes a really nice 993 turbo was around $50k then!)
Since there is a video contact to police and make a report. They might not do anything but it is a citable offense that the truck was dumping gravel (unsecured load violation) If there is a police report you would can include that and inquire who the driver was (who is very interested in protecting his CDL)
So think about who much this would all cost the insurance, the company, and the driver if you kept at it... a lot. If you can build your case the company and their insurance will 100% do the right thing for THEM (not you) and that thing just very well be painting your whole car.
09-04-2021, 01:18 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This sucks. Other things to consider:
Insurance that would be on a commercial fleet is not like individual car insurance. They have a lot more insured, and a lot more at stake. If this was some yahoo in his $500 pickup truck you'd be done.
Don't give up on diminished value. I had a snap-on truck back into may 993 turbo front bumper around 20 years ago, the guy apologised and gave me his insurance. I called them with an estimate from my chosen repair shop and they offered to pay for a new bumper and repaint. (around $4000) This was a basically pristine low mileage car with all original paint so I asked them about diminished value from a carfax incident and a non original paint bumper. They told me to get a statement from an "expert" (I used a contact at the dealer) he wrote a letter saying the value was diminished by 10% after the repair...they gave me another $5000. (yes a really nice 993 turbo was around $50k then!)
Since there is a video contact to police and make a report. They might not do anything but it is a citable offense that the truck was dumping gravel (unsecured load violation) If there is a police report you would can include that and inquire who the driver was (who is very interested in protecting his CDL)
So think about who much this would all cost the insurance, the company, and the driver if you kept at it... a lot. If you can build your case the company and their insurance will 100% do the right thing for THEM (not you) and that thing just very well be painting your whole car.
Insurance that would be on a commercial fleet is not like individual car insurance. They have a lot more insured, and a lot more at stake. If this was some yahoo in his $500 pickup truck you'd be done.
Don't give up on diminished value. I had a snap-on truck back into may 993 turbo front bumper around 20 years ago, the guy apologised and gave me his insurance. I called them with an estimate from my chosen repair shop and they offered to pay for a new bumper and repaint. (around $4000) This was a basically pristine low mileage car with all original paint so I asked them about diminished value from a carfax incident and a non original paint bumper. They told me to get a statement from an "expert" (I used a contact at the dealer) he wrote a letter saying the value was diminished by 10% after the repair...they gave me another $5000. (yes a really nice 993 turbo was around $50k then!)
Since there is a video contact to police and make a report. They might not do anything but it is a citable offense that the truck was dumping gravel (unsecured load violation) If there is a police report you would can include that and inquire who the driver was (who is very interested in protecting his CDL)
So think about who much this would all cost the insurance, the company, and the driver if you kept at it... a lot. If you can build your case the company and their insurance will 100% do the right thing for THEM (not you) and that thing just very well be painting your whole car.
Insurance companies are already involved..not sure how that complicates things.
09-04-2021, 01:46 PM
#7
A claim for Diminished Value should be made after the claim is paid and he gets his finished car back. It’s a separate department within the insurance company not related to physical damage claims. It’s usually much higher than 10%, think 30-35% of the car’s pre-accident value; there are specialist companies that write those estimates for a few hundred dollars.
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09-04-2021, 02:02 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Since his insurance company is involved now they will settle his claim for him, it’s their job at this point, and then they will file a counter claim with the other insurance company for reimbursement, subrogation. He was not at fault so this shouldn’t affect his premiums, but I suppose that may vary by his state’s laws and his insurer’s policies.
A claim for Diminished Value should be made after the claim is paid and he gets his finished car back. It’s a separate department within the insurance company not related to physical damage claims. It’s usually much higher than 10%, think 30-35% of the car’s pre-accident value; there are specialist companies that write those estimates for a few hundred dollars.
A claim for Diminished Value should be made after the claim is paid and he gets his finished car back. It’s a separate department within the insurance company not related to physical damage claims. It’s usually much higher than 10%, think 30-35% of the car’s pre-accident value; there are specialist companies that write those estimates for a few hundred dollars.
Ya..the issue is a full paint job (1/2 the car has damage) will total the car...
09-04-2021, 02:05 PM
#9
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Another option may be to let them total it then buy it back for salvage value and use the difference to pay for the paint job, but you'll then end up with a a salvage title.
09-04-2021, 02:47 PM
#10
Assume that it’s value is $35K, for an insurance company to declare it a total loss the costs to repair it would need to be roughly 80% of that (depending again on his state’s laws and his insurance company’s policies). So $28K or so. Even if the value is only $20K, that’s still a $16K line that would have to be crossed to total it.
He should just take it to a Porsche dealer that has an auto body repair facility and have them write the initial estimate for repair, they will tell him very quickly if it seems a total loss; an insurance adjuster will go out and work with the dealership after that happens. BTW, just because it is a Porsche Store doesn’t mean that the repairs will cost more, the insurance company dictates the reimbursement. But a Porsche Store will have more knowledge of the car and access to whatever OEM stuff it might need.
The problem your friend seems to have is a bit of Perfectionism and he won’t accept a repair / repaint of just the damaged panels. In that case he needs to pay for the rest of the car himself, it’s probably the only thing that’s going to make him happy in the end. And perhaps the Diminished Value claim later on will help him recover much of that cost.
If he were my friend I would try to reassure him that it’s just paint, and I’m sure the facility will guarantee his satisfaction. Or they might tell him upfront that he won’t be satisfied so he would then be able to go back to his adjuster and ask for a supplement to paint the whole car. He won’t know until he gets things moving. But $18K sounds like an awful lot for a repaint though…
He should just take it to a Porsche dealer that has an auto body repair facility and have them write the initial estimate for repair, they will tell him very quickly if it seems a total loss; an insurance adjuster will go out and work with the dealership after that happens. BTW, just because it is a Porsche Store doesn’t mean that the repairs will cost more, the insurance company dictates the reimbursement. But a Porsche Store will have more knowledge of the car and access to whatever OEM stuff it might need.
The problem your friend seems to have is a bit of Perfectionism and he won’t accept a repair / repaint of just the damaged panels. In that case he needs to pay for the rest of the car himself, it’s probably the only thing that’s going to make him happy in the end. And perhaps the Diminished Value claim later on will help him recover much of that cost.
If he were my friend I would try to reassure him that it’s just paint, and I’m sure the facility will guarantee his satisfaction. Or they might tell him upfront that he won’t be satisfied so he would then be able to go back to his adjuster and ask for a supplement to paint the whole car. He won’t know until he gets things moving. But $18K sounds like an awful lot for a repaint though…
Last edited by Shark2626; 09-04-2021 at 02:53 PM.
09-04-2021, 03:13 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Assume that it’s value is $35K, for an insurance company to declare it a total loss the costs to repair it would need to be roughly 80% of that (depending again on his state’s laws and his insurance company’s policies). So $28K or so. Even if the value is only $20K, that’s still a $16K line that would have to be crossed to total it.
He should just take it to a Porsche dealer that has an auto body repair facility and have them write the initial estimate for repair, they will tell him very quickly if it seems a total loss; an insurance adjuster will go out and work with the dealership after that happens. BTW, just because it is a Porsche Store doesn’t mean that the repairs will cost more, the insurance company dictates the reimbursement. But a Porsche Store will have more knowledge of the car and access to whatever OEM stuff it might need.
The problem your friend seems to have is a bit of Perfectionism and he won’t accept a repair / repaint of just the damaged panels. In that case he needs to pay for the rest of the car himself, it’s probably the only thing that’s going to make him happy in the end. And perhaps the Diminished Value claim later on will help him recover much of that cost.
If he were my friend I would try to reassure him that it’s just paint, and I’m sure the facility will guarantee his satisfaction. Or they might tell him upfront that he won’t be satisfied so he would then be able to go back to his adjuster and ask for a supplement to paint the whole car. He won’t know until he gets things moving. But $18K sounds like an awful lot for a repaint though…
He should just take it to a Porsche dealer that has an auto body repair facility and have them write the initial estimate for repair, they will tell him very quickly if it seems a total loss; an insurance adjuster will go out and work with the dealership after that happens. BTW, just because it is a Porsche Store doesn’t mean that the repairs will cost more, the insurance company dictates the reimbursement. But a Porsche Store will have more knowledge of the car and access to whatever OEM stuff it might need.
The problem your friend seems to have is a bit of Perfectionism and he won’t accept a repair / repaint of just the damaged panels. In that case he needs to pay for the rest of the car himself, it’s probably the only thing that’s going to make him happy in the end. And perhaps the Diminished Value claim later on will help him recover much of that cost.
If he were my friend I would try to reassure him that it’s just paint, and I’m sure the facility will guarantee his satisfaction. Or they might tell him upfront that he won’t be satisfied so he would then be able to go back to his adjuster and ask for a supplement to paint the whole car. He won’t know until he gets things moving. But $18K sounds like an awful lot for a repaint though…
I thought it was closer to 50%...
09-04-2021, 03:19 PM
#12
09-05-2021, 05:31 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
He might want to consider having the repair work done out of state after having a strong in state estimate done.
If he can get a larger sum, say $15k, without totaling the car in an agreement with the insurance he should then be able to get a full repaint in the correct paint in Reno NV fairly easily.
Unless things changed recently with their environmental legislation.
Local CA shops do amazing work, but their labor rates are higher and the paint isn't the tougher solvent based kind.
Just food for thought.
If he can get a larger sum, say $15k, without totaling the car in an agreement with the insurance he should then be able to get a full repaint in the correct paint in Reno NV fairly easily.
Unless things changed recently with their environmental legislation.
Local CA shops do amazing work, but their labor rates are higher and the paint isn't the tougher solvent based kind.
Just food for thought.
09-05-2021, 09:39 AM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Something to consider- it's called "betterment" - they probably won't pay to paint areas that aren't damaged. Hopefully they do, in any event, don't settle the claim quickly - they usually come up if you drag your feet.