Seth W

The notion that a supercharged 928 that passes the tailpipe test is not compliant with the law b/c the supercharger package has not been CARB certified is absolute stupidity. My A4 is probably not "compliant" either since orginal equipment has been removed and aftermarket turbo etc. added. It so far EXCEEDED the testing standards (read "was not polluting") that is was not even in the average of any category of emissions it was so clean.

I'll probably never remove the cats (b/c of the noise and b/c of the ethics even if it still beat the test) but the idea that my 15 year old 18mpg 3600lb car is now "illegal" b/c of CARB rules (the same CARB that said that 10% of all cars on the road by NOW would be electric and then realized that they could not change the market) is insane.

Lots of shops sell and install headers etc. The shops that sell them are no less liable in the eyes of the law (from an empirical point of view) then the shops that install them. Both have some sort of amorphous duty to ensure that the products are used in the manner that they were designed--off road. In reality,however, the only person who is really liable here is the owner of the car. Yes, all shops should make clients who purchase non conforming equipment sign a statement that the understand that such equipment is not legal for road use and that the buyer intends to use such equipment off road. Will it insulate them? Unlikely. Are they ever going to be the target of the feds or the state? Unlikely.

Finally, while it is true most lawyers know our rights, most of us (litigators anyway) are also loathe to engage in disputes in our personal lives b/c we spend our days doing it on behalf of others. I really would do just about anything to work things out with a vendor/service provider b/c I, better than almost anyone, realize the stupidity of lawsuits. I have no empirical data to back this up, but of the 600 lawyers I currently work with, I am not aware of a single one involved in a personal lawsuit. That either means that (i) they exist and I'm not aware; (ii) they don't need to sue b/c they scare the pants off of vendors; or (iii) they work things out to a mutually acceptable resolution. I like to think that (iii) is the dominant paradigm.

Steps off soap box.

Seth

Jim bailey - 928 International

Seth....." Are they ever going to be the target of the feds or the state? Unlikely. " I believe that you will find that exhaust/muffler repair shops are often busted for removing cats here in California ( phone a few and ask them to install headers ) . I know of one CHP traffic stop where the officer stated " If I look under that car I better find a Cat " . The drivers of " highly modified cars of Japanese origin " ( just trying to be P C ) when they assemble to compare the acceleration capabilities on public property are now finding that the law enforcement officials are now carefully LOOKING at ALL the cars and impounding those with modifications including those simply WATCHING . So if you happen to be doing an "exhibition of speed" , what ever that means , with the snail whining and RMB (which is legal) roaring as you blow by a parked CHP unit ......... it is just a matter of how the officer happens to feel that day . I do agree that all that should matter is the actual emissions at the tailpipe but with official testing only every two years California wants the manufacturer to PROVE his product is not a cause of pollution before it is sold to the public . When I have my 500 Magnum in my hand very few people would consider having a gun fight ....the ESQ. is perhaps an equally intimidating negotiating asset .

bcdavis

A lot of the police in LA and San Diego have developed task forces to go after street racers. They have a lot of laws on the books, allowing them to confistcate and impound cars they find to have illegal modifications. In CA, according to some of the muffler shop I talked to, it is not legal to do anything that makes the car louder. So supposedly a RMB would not be legal. And yet many cars and bikes run around with really loud pipes. See, the thing is all about selective enforcement. Ricers are seen as irresponsible, and dangerous kids. Even though some of them may be intelligent hot-rodders and racers, without the funds to play with the big boys. But when a cop sees a loud harley, they see that as "Americana". Not as something irresponsible or illegal. But most of the pipes on those bikes are by no means legal. But the cops are not descending on biker rallys, impounding all the bikes with loud pipes. But they are descending on every gathering of ricers, out racing. It's all a matter of priorities. I find that cops see the 928 as a sophisticated car. Not something "dangerous" or irresponsible. So I find they leave me alone. But when I drove a car that was bright yellow, with a huge wing, etc, I got pulled over and hassled all the time. Because of the perception of the officer. So the same thing goes for cops, emissions inspectors, muffler shops, etc... If they are out to get you, they will find something. If they think you are not a threat, they will not hassle you. But if a cop is annoyed with your behavior, they may very will crawl under the hood, and look for mods, and bust you for illegal equipment mods. Or they may think the car is cool, and want to chat. Your attitude is sometimes the biggest contributor to how they treat you.

bcdavis

PS: A stock looking 928, or Audi, with bypassed cats, or turbos, or a supercharger, will still *look* like a responsible car... And it will still look stock. So they will probably never give you a second look.

Old & New

A little reading between the lines...

The task forces go after the street racers *because* what they do is irresponsible and dangerous.

The fact that most Harley riders are much safer drivers than the rice crowd (including 180mph bikes), coupled with the fact that most Harley riders are older, wiser and more polite than the street racer crowd probably has something to do with why the authorities have shifted their priorities!

bcdavis

I guess the point is that if you drive around with a supercharger, and just enjoy the extra power, no one will probably ever hassle you, look under your hood, or confistcate your car. But if you go around ripping it up, racing, doing burnouts, and acting like a maniac, they may indeed do some checking around, to see what you are up to under the hood...

Shane E.

Move to a less regulated state.

SteveM928

Like most 928 owners I wouldn't mind having more power in my car. My car is basically stock, and there's a reason for that. I've seen and been involved in various car projects over the years that took a very long time, cost a good bit more than expected, and were to many times not completed for various reasons. Most of these were cars that are much more common than a 928, that had much more performance parts availability, and many more people with performance experience with them. I've heard of and read about some of the different projects that some 928 owners have gotten involved in on their cars, and how long things took, even when they were actually completed, and how much they ended up spendind. I will never even consider something like that for my car. Regardless of the cost, I have no intention of starting something that will be completed for my heirs to drive. Even if I didn't have any heirs, I could make some in much less time than some of these engine builds take. I've messed around with cars for plenty long enough to know what causes head gasket failures. Even if I didn't know that and how to prevent it, I wouldn't care much about something like a head gasket failure. I could replace 100 head gaskets and still come out cheaper and taking less time than with some other projects take before their owners even start the car for the first time. Something that can be completed in a day, weekend, week, or even a month is great. Congratulations on doing something that I think is infinitely more realistic than the things some others have decided on Tim.

Are there going to be any before and after dyno results on the installation you completed Tim?

I'm glad to hear that law enforcement is spending their time cracking down on some of the stuff that's been mentioned in this thread now, instead of looking for murderers, and terrorists. I guess there's more money in going after a car that you can impound and fine the owner of.

bcdavis

Bingo!

$$$$$$$$$$

Brett944Cab2

Didn't wade through the last few posts - maybe somebody already made this point. Speaking of lawyers, I'm thinking that getting pulled for DUI in your newly-minted Supershark could have ruined a rare day. Be careful out there!

Normy

Hmm. All good points.

In 2002, I had the only run-in with law enforcement that I've had with my 928. I was stuck in traffic, and trying to save gas...had the car in 5th gear at 30 mph. Well, it started to buck and kick a little, so I pushed in the clutch and revved up the engine before selecting 3rd.

Right in front of a cop...

30 minutes of PC'd inspection later, [including the cop checking out my car and telling me that he liked it, but was afraid of Porsches because his Uncle had to spend $900 to replace the water pump on his 1985 Carerra.... DOH!] I walked away with a ticket for "display of power or performance". He never showed, it cost me nothing in the end.

I have a point to make about all this boost-induced testosterone washing the decks of the SS Rennlist. For some reason, horsepower numbers keep coming up. Great, but they all mean NOTHING to me. My dad's Jetta develops 115 horsepower as it takes him to the golf course or Wal-Mart. So does an FZR-600 motorcycle with any decent mods. That FZR can get into 10 second territory with this much power and a gummy rear tire. Do you think my dad's golf-club carrier can do this?

My point: When is one of the Murphotoids going to put his car on a strip and tell me just how much faster "513 rear-wheel horsepower" is compared to my relatively stock 13 second '85 S2? It can't still be total winter in Wisconsin....

Normy!
'85 S2 5 Speed

PS- Jim, I've been interested in the S&W 500 and the Desert Eagle for a while.....only, I'm concered about the recoil. How bad is it?

Kaz

Unless the driver is using slicks anyone with a 500+hp 928 is going to have a lot of trouble hooking up at the track. I'm more interested in passing power and times from say 60mph to 110mph with downshift or just top gear acceleration.

hacker-pschorr

Define "winter" as it did snow last week and if we are lucky, we will see high 30's today and tomorrow. Bottom line is, the Porsche is still in storage. Was moved in February to my mechanics shop for some "updates" with no intentions of going anywhere until May.

Also, the local drag strip doesn't even open up until the 2nd half of May. I hope to be there on the first open night if nothing is happening at Road America.

I also called the closest Dyno (about 30 minutes away) he's not even opening the dyno until may. He doesn't want all of the street slop on his machine.

I'm no gun expert, but a friend of mine claims to be and told me to stay away from Desert Eagle's. Said the overall quality was garbage. At "The Gun Store" in Las Vegas, where you can rent all kinds of fun weapons and shoot them at their range. They stopped carrying Desert Eagle's because they broke so often.

Lagavulin

I'm thinking that it'll take the guys (..'The Local 928 Racer' Jean-Louis and Z) and I one week (..doing so after work, etc.) to change head gaskets now that it's already been done. The first time through is so tedious because of all the careful cleaning and scraping that must be done on the block and heads, and cleaning all the accumulated oil out of the intake and intake ports, etc; that took a LONG time to do!

Had I known better at the time, I would have had the nearby speed shop (..Borchardt's) rebuild my heads for $180/head plus valve seals at $2 each per 928 International, so for less than $450 (..does not include extra work required if a valve seat needs replacement though), I'd have a set of rebuilt heads. Oh well, if there is a 'next time'.

Hey Fly-Boy, you still haven't posted that supposed time-slip...

No official 1/4 track times at least until sometime after SpeedSeekers the weekend of April 16-18.

Hopefully my crankcase oil recovery will work and I'll only have to worry about the manual trans temp which should get pretty high as the course is 4.2 miles long. My track times will be pretty abysmal since I've never driven on a road course before, but I should have LOTS of FUN doing so! I'm hoping to execute a lot of late apexes and adjust from there so I don't run off the course coming out of corners.

If they were out on the track too, I should be able to kick Jim Bailey and Mark Kibort's *** though (...and MAYBE Mark Anderson's too), on street tires even....

...only if they were all walking the course!

This will be a big test for a 11 psi MURF 928 32v SuperShark. As always, you guys will have a front-row-center-seat regarding how it held up, for better or worse, including the crappy lap times.

Fastest928

A head gasket change, with engine in car might take between 20 - 30 man hours depending on skill, and if you have to do it twice a year...it adds up quick. And if you have to pay for it....

So if you are doing two headgakets a year and the 928 is only a weekend cruiser, and if plan to have the 928 for 5 years, that is a very high cost of ownership. If OEMs engineeried their cars with that in mind, they would be out of business and buried by warranty costs beyond belief. Wonder what the cost would be if you drove like us and put 40-60 k per year of very hard miles on a 928!

It may take time, but once done, you can flog it forrrrever, time and time again with confidence.

Marc
DEVEK