bcdavis

When you have an awesome kit, with awesome results, like the MURPH guys, they post pictures, dyno times, and prices, and testimonials. And if people criticize, they laugh. Why? Because their setup worked. So when Devek, or others, hassled them about reliability, or power, they just laughed, and had confidence in their system. And people bought them, and confirmed that they worked, were easy to install, and they had great results. So if you are going to talk about your system, you have to have confidence, and willingness to back it up. Just do great work, make amazing components, and if you have done all your work properly, the kit will look awesome, kick a$$, and everyone will be very impressed. It's just that the Projekt929 fiasco really made people very skeptical, and cautious. There *are* people out there, who will make false claims, collect people's money, and then deliver junk, or deliver nothing at all. There are many people with "promises" of supercharger kits, turbo kits, etc, who do not have anything to actually sell. There are schemers and scammers, who change names, offer fake products, etc... So we have reason to be cautious, and ask questions. Especially with someone who has an association with someone who has a reputation as one of those scammers. How many happy people are driving around with a Projekt928 kit? The only paying customers were dissapointed in the installations, and reworked them, or removed them. So we have good reason to ask you about the details of your kit, and make sure you actually know what you are doing, unlike those other kits that failed to deliver...

Two words:

Prove it.

UKKid35

Is there a reason why other than Lancia in the 80s, the only mass car maker to offer supercharged cars is Mercedes? Why does everyone else produce turbo charged versions of their sports cars?

Old & New

Paul, where are you getting your info?

If you have been following supercharger threads for the last year, there have been many instances cited of auto manufacturers who use superchargers. Currently, at least Ford, GM, Mercedes all use superchargers... historically, there were quite a few but I do not remember them.

MBMB

Jaguar, too.

GoRideSno

Paul,
Mustang Cobra, Ford Lightning, Ford GT, Ford Thinderbird, several Mercedes, Toyota MR2, several GM cars, several ToyotaTRD cars, etc......are all supercharged, and all have positive displacement superchargers. Factory supercharged sports cars probably out number factory turbo cars these days.


Andy K

UKKid35

Old & New, thanks for the correction, just shows I don't read as many car magazines as I did when I was too young to drive...

Andy, most of the cars you mention are not generally available in Europe, that's my excuse for my ignorance anyway.

Mark, thanks, now I just feel stupid.

Fastest928

BC,
Why did you bring up our name in this again?

Marc
DEVEK

John..

BC is supposed to play ref only, not add fuel to the fire. Personally, I think I could drop a Vortech onto a 928 in a very short time and do it as good as or better than anybody else on here, but I don't like the technology for use on a street car. I don't need to do it to prove I can. Lots of people have done it and done it well and they all look alike, so why do that? Positive displacement, different story and more work.... Turbos, more work but a very high reward when done properly.

You will see the triple K proof later this summer BC.

Do tell, who has blown up a motor this year?

bcdavis

Marc, I brought Devek up again, because you were part of the group that was debating the reliability of supercharging over the reliability of a stroker kit. You strongly debated the reliability of supercharged engines. You went so far as to claim that they would most likely blow up if they were run at high RPM in an open road race at full throttle. You were the one who laid down the gauntlet, and told the MURPH guys to prove their reliability, and enter an open road race. All I was saying in my last post here, was that all these people making kits, make claims, and talk a lot. Very few people back up their talk with products that work. Even John talks a lot about his car, and turbos, but does not have a kit for sale. So I was just giving props to the MURPH guys, and Andy, for not just talking, but for building a successful kit, and selling it. All I am encouraging, is for people like Devek, John, Projekt928, and any other people who talk about what will work with boost, and what will not, to simply put their words to the test. You went on and on about how unreliable the boosted engines would be. And almost implied that they would blow up at the first full-throttle run. Obviously, more and more MURPH cars are running around, racing, making full-throttle runs, and none has blown a head gasket at the kit's recommended lower boost levels. So they are proving their words, with kits, dyno numbers, and demonstrations. All I am suggesting, is that people who have an idea for boosting a car, just back up their strong words, with proof. I think Devek is good at providing proof and documentation of their products. But I also think that you really put down their setup, and questioned the reliability of their engines. And yet now you are joining the boost crowd that you initially criticized. It's a bit hipocritical. Regardless, I did not mean to "drag" you back into this. Just using you as an example of someone who criticized supercharging, without having any proof of their failure.My point is that if someone is going to criticize someone's plan, they had better be prepared to back up their opinions with a kit of their own. So I wish you luck in your endeavors, and I appreciate that you have not been online criticizing the efforts of others recently. Hopefully, if you decide to chime in again in the future, it will be because you have a competitive product, that is more reliable, works better, and impresses everyone. Talk is cheap.

Tony

..and boost is fun!

GoRideSno

EDIT: Sorry this post was meant for the Boost/BMEP thread.


Marc,
The manifold is $880, the Big IC is $935 and the Autorotor 2.2 is $1725 with the group purchase. The Autorotor price includes the drive and a pulley. After the GP the pride of the Autorotor will be more like $1900.

A 928 with a 10psi Autorotor system will be a very fast 928.

I am placing the GP order on the Autorotor this morning.

My e-mail is andy@928supermodel.com

Thank you for your interest.

Andy K

SteveM928

That's EXACTLY what I think about a turbo setup.

If you mean in a turbo vs supercharger comparison, based on a percentage of the number built, the Callaway turbo cars have blown up way more engines than the supercharged cars, stroker motor cars, or normally aspirated cars.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Steve M ...... O K so how many of each flavor have been "blown up" ......Turbo ? , supercharged ? , stroker ? perhaps a better question is how many of each really EXIST ? Turbo , supercharged , stroker . If you rely on what is posted on the Forum and renn list for example you can only "prove" that a few Stroker engines exist . Do you have other information upon which to base your statement ? I am not disagreeing with you but simply questioning your sources .

SteveM928

Jim,

I'm basing it on the information picked up from the various lists, boards, and discussions with individuals over the years for the most part. Not the most accurate method, but about the best that can be done I suppose. Going by that, there seem to be pretty fair number of supercharged cars out there in comparison to turbos or strokers if using this as a representative group. Of those supercharged ones, I've only heard of two and maybe three blowing up. One would be be Quick Carl breaking a piston during development of his installation, back when he had no intercooler and lean air/fuel ratios, and the other one or possibly two being connected to the one particular shop/individual in Southern California that I'm not going to mention. As far as the stroker motors, there seem to be less of them that get mentioned than the supercharger instalations that have been done. Of those I've heard of only two "blowing up". Now look at how few turbo cars were produced. I think three or four of the Callaway cars have been mentioned. Of those I seem to remember one being totaled when it hit a pole, John's is still around, and one or both or the others blew up. That means that of those known Callaway cars mentioned, 25%-50% blew up. Of the supercharged and stroker motors mentioned, the percentage is nowhere near that. I can just imagine the comments that would be made if 25% of the supercharged cars that have been talked about blew up.

bcdavis

That's why I have to give huge props to the MURPH crew.
Their work is out there for everyone to see.
If Gretch blows up tomorrow, guess what?
We will all hear about it.
But if all the MURPH cars keep going strong, keep smoking Vettes,
and we keep seeing more and more installs, then it will help their
sales immensely. Just talking about strokers will not sell strokers.
Talking about how awesome turbos are, will not sell anyone on the idea.
The day we have a few 500hp twin turbo 928s on the road, then people will be talking.
If people want to keep quiet, and not talk about their developments, or successes,
then that's fine. But I think it's awesome how *public* the supercharging experiment is.
The early failures of the Projekt928 cars were all over this board.
And the MURPH successes are all over this board as well.
So what works, and what doesn't, is there for all to see, and compare...

If people are out there building strokers, and twin turbo s4s, and not sharing the results,
then fine for them. But they will not etch themselves in the minds of the majority of the 928 owners.