abrescia

well good, that simplifies the rest of this decision tree!

vanster

To me ( I'm not a deep pockets guy) the cost is relative to the enjoyment we get from something. I started out with a $10,000 car and maybe I have now $50k in it. What's the value? Look at your neighbor that just bought that new M4 or a Range Rover that will drop in value $25k a year and they are all just another car in the grid lock. Last week I was at a cars and coffee ( local PCA event) and looking at all the GT2's and 3's along with a new 992 with the window sticker tagging out a $128k...out of the 50 cars at the event ( they all turn into a blur ) including my car there was only 1 other 928. I think I have more grins per mile than thinking that every mile I drive my car it's worth just a little less.
As Mark Anderson said, "just drive the heck out of it for it's no longer some low mileage prize trailer queen". And this is what I do.

abrescia

that’s awesome man, congratulations. If I could snag a sweet early car, manual, in a great color combo, no rubs, no spoilers, but still a sunroof, that was cheap cause it needed mechanically rebuilt, I could see just having it hauled to that shop and spending the dough. I love your stipulation that it has to look like a stock motor, that was a class move. What a gem!

zekgb

I'm actually shocked at the all in number being as low as it is. As you say, compared to the alternatives the enjoyment/satisfaction to dollar ratio is quite good!

dr bob

FINALLY received my copy yesterday, and zoomed to read it immediately. Knowing some of the back story as we do, the description in Pano is pretty conservative. Most interesting is the author's comparison with his own recently-sold example, and his rapidly-diminishing impression of it after driving Van's car. Here's a case where there's a pretty direct impression, with all the new "extra" torque available to launch above freeway speeds. I'm always impressed by performance cars that offer a normal driving experience, no drama at all in normal driving, just jump in and go on a coast-to-coast dash without a worry as Van spec'd on the build order. Gotta love it!

GregBBRD

Adding in a stroker crankshaft, a custom set of Carrillo rods, a set of pistons, different head gaskets, different injectors, and the ability to tune the engine, when you are done, adds about 15K to a stock rebuild.

Actually fairly economical, considering it is a Porsche engine with pistons that are $650 each. (I'm not sure that, gramarically, the word "economical" can be used in the same sentence with the word "Porsche", but I just did it.)

Of course, a stock rebuild is about 15K, if the pistons can be re-used and about another 5K if new factory oversize pistons are used (if they are available at that particular point in time.) If the camshafts are worn out, a stock set of cams and lifters (if you can buy them) will "rip up" another 8K.

Note that new pistons are listed in both a base stroker ~15K and a stock rebuild (with pistons) for ~20K, which is redundant. Take away the cost of the stock pistons and a stock rebuild with a base stroker is possible in the low 30's.

We have built several of these.

Of course, the more one adds to make more power, beyond the base stroker, the higher the price goes. There is "low hanging fruit", where additional pieces (cam changes, exhaust changes, etc) complement a "base stroker" very cost effectively. But just like adding these pieces to a stock engine, they cost money.

Like any engine, anywhere, there are additional pieces that can be added, which have dimishing results with very high cost per dollar spent.

I've certainly built a lot of engines for 40K. I've certainly built engines for 60K, even 80K. I'm currently building one that will approach, if not exceed 100K.

"Reliable horsepower costs money....how fast do you want to go" applies to a 928 engine, also!

skpyle

Greg, in no way shape or form was I disparaging the cost of your stroker motors. I was just stating what I thought was fact. I cut my teeth on the concept of 'you want to play, you got to pay.' Nothing is free, and most things that are worth it, cost accordingly. Since becoming a Porsche 928 owner, I have become accustomed to things being expensive. If I want it, I have to save up and buy it. I don't complain because of the costs. They are what they are. As such with your work. There are years of development work and thought in all of those engines. They cost accordingly.

If I had $40k in my budget for a stroker for the Red Witch, I would be one of your clientele. Simple as that.

abrescia

I’d pay a fair bit to have one of the gurus go thru my car and make it a reliable driver. I’d be more interested in spending money to know that when I get in the car, it’s going to work. If I want to drive it 1000 miles, I’m going to make it there and back. My 86.5 has a porken chip and an x-pipe put in by the previous owner- so I’m not even sure how much more HP I’d be getting in my existing car, but the torque boost would be awesome. But most importantly, I’d feel like I can drive it wherever and whenever I want. Also I’d need the windshield wipers to be better is there a Greg Brown windshield wiper overhaul?

Dmckenzie

Second that!

vanster

Back in the early '80's I started racing a Lotus Cortina. Full on gutted, straight cut gears and all the proper bits. I went to the best engine builder that specialized in 1600cc Lotus Twin cams. He got 176hp out of that little guy and for in an 1800# box is was good enough that I could do well and I could hang out with the Mustang and old Corvette boys. Other twincam drivers would go for 200+hp. They were quicker but seldom finished the weekend. As GB states, if you want gonzo HP...sure he can build it. Consider GB as a legal drug dealer..However if you want to finish and enjoy your weekend, dial it back a bit and focus on driving. My car doesn't have huge HP, or torque, just enough to get you almost in trouble but always get you home.
The first automotive journalist that fried the clutch was obsessed by hp and torque numbers as it was all he could talk about and consider the result.

dr bob

I'm not sure that "expensive" really defines the effort, mostly because everything is relative these days. Want to to add 20-25% horsepower and torque to your Corvette, F-car, Maserati Jaguar Benz of similar vintage, yet retain stock appearance, plus get better fuel economy and emissions? Ch-Ching! Oh, needs to be disassembled, straightened and painted correctly too? That's gonna be cheap, just like the Corvette, F-car,... Planning on driveline upgrades to match the new engine capability? Need after-sale support for your custom ride and the new goodies? I'm thinking that "value!" is the better term.

Lots of enthusiasts start buying stuff and bolting it on, maybe fixing some of the tired original pieces along the way. Money and time dribble into the project, and over the course of a year or three your ride gets to where you are satisfied with its condition. It may not be perfect, but you accept the compromises. For many it's a labor of love, and the journey is at least as important as the destination. Others, having taken the journey in the past and learned from it, decide that life's too short, and have a known expert do things the way they want them done, to a known and predictable timeline and budget. I'm not picking on anybody specifically 'cuz I know how we all love the process, but if you paid yourself minimum wage for all your invested time, held the downtime up against any of the DD's in your fleet, and gathered all the receipts for everything you've invested in the car beyond standard maintenance stuff like tires and fluids, where do you think you'd end up? Would you be looking a little longingly at an example like Van's, and checking your calendar and checkbook?

Just sayin'... For a lot of enthusiasts, having one of our experts do the work for you is a serious bargain. The Gregs, Stans, SeanRs, DaveCs and a few others are all booked at least months and sometimes years out on special projects. At some point, Greg is going to hang up his tool pouch and find something less fun to do with his time. Like hang out at their place in the Sierras. Hey Greg, we are managing nicely in the woods here in the shadow of the Cascades. It's not half bad.

NoVector

For our planning purposes:

dr bob

That is truly disheartening! I could maybe spare a quarter of a liver without too much drama. I'd have to cut ethanol consumption by a quarter, maybe not a bad thing on its own. Can I choose which quarter of the liver? Yeah, that discolored end over there would probably be OK, doc.

GregBBRD

I knew that you were not being disparaging.
I just wanted to attach actual numbers to your thought.
In reality, the 40K stroker option, with pieces added to complement the increased displacement or replace worn camshafts is very common.

GT6ixer

When that time comes he will have definitely earned it, but man I just got into the 928 world so I selfishly I hope Greg hangs around for a while.