Ok then. Lets just go after it. I have been wanting to start this thread for a month now and finally at the part where it makes sense. I have to start by saying thanks to everyone here as I've already trolled more threads than I can handle. My bookmarks folder needs it's own dewey decimal system at this point!

I have owned 2 85' S3's in the past -
one meteor metallic grey with maroon interior. low miles bought it cheap and sold it cheap. paint was flawless. the maroon interior, i dont know the exact color this was called, was actually a deep burgundy and very tasteful looking. I have seen other examples but none that looked this good.
one black on black 5 speed that was mint. Bought it in 1996 for 13,200.00 USD with 68k on the odometer. Sold it in 2003 for 7,800 USD... Boy I wish I had this back...

I am now much longer in the tooth and have not owned a 928 in 15 years. Been looking it seems every month ever since I sold my last 2.
I am now the proud owner of another 1985

1985 Black on Black 5 speed
black on black 5 speed

The story. I've been looking as I mentioned for 15 years. I'm driving down a backroad near my house on the way to dinner and see this car with shoe polish on every window stating, "FOR SALE $3,500"
A closer inspection reveals a for sale sign on the floorboard for $4,900.00. Car is located at a auto shop and is parked with the bumper resting and pushing on a chain link fence...
I am obviously enamoured. Meet the owner the next morning at 8. The car actually runs. and drives. Hop in and per owner instructions wait for it to "warm up". Timing belt light comes on... Owner says his mechanic said not to worry about that and hit the red exclamation on the dash. Red Exclamation is no longer lit. Timing belt is now good for another 60k!!!

Release the clutch to a massive shudder. Negotiate clutch to finally get it backed up and then the same process to get moving forward. I get it up to 60 mph and promptly park it. This car is a 30 footer for paint and I believe the PO worked at a gravel quarry and parked the car in front of the job trailer to make sure rocks only hit the car and did not make there way to the trailer : ) Good times...

Has the car ever been wrecked? Nope Has it ever been painted? Nope
I knew both of these were unlikely but a 928 S3 that actually runs and drives for $3,500? I'll take it.
Peruse the records that PO gives me at the bank.
Letter in records:
Dear Sir,
My client was driving to an appt at your job site when his 928 "fell" into a ditch causing 10k in damage... Ever been wrecked. Nope.
Called PO. Oh Yeah, that did happen I forgot that was like 10 years ago.

Drove the car home. Let it sit for a couple days while I cleaned the interior. Dash cracked. A/C does not work. Switches. Sunroof sticks. The usual. I am used to looking at cars like this and it does not scare me.
After much thought I lift the car up one wheel at a time and make my way to the drivers front. Yep. Stuck like Chuck. Caliper frozen solid. After much manipulating, using a c clamp to push in a small amount at a time and then pushing on the brake with c clamp still in place but loose, I get the wheel free. Drive the car, I know this should not have happened but what do you do? Car has power now! No more brake lockup but still a shudder. Motor Mounts...

And the story continues. I promptly throw down for more in parts than I paid for the car, Thanks Roger! Intake refresh parts in hand, TB/WP parts in hand, liftbars in hand. Time to get wrenching.

Intake off. What a train wreck. Squirrels. Nuts. Oil. Leaves. Oil. More oil.






Got the front dissassembled. Timing Belt I could have pulled off with my hand. Got it to 0 degrees. Marks line up, passenger cam wheel is 1.5 teeth to the left, I think this is normal? Rotated it 2x clockwise and 45 degree marks line up.

Got the steering rack out. Knew I should have marked the shaft. I didn't. This will be fun to get back in now. This was not pleasant with all the grease under there.
Had to take the starter out to get to 17mm nut. That meant disconnecting clutch slave cylinder. Pulled the pushrod out I'm sure I messed something up there.

Then it made sense for me for some reason to really want to get the idle air crap out of the way. I am deleting it so might as well get some space. Removed the pump and hoses. Took off cam cover bolt to remove the bracket attached to cam cover and hmmm. For some reason I can't get the bolt out... More research at this fine establishment and surely the stand off bolt is still attached. Good news is i can rethread the bolt back into the head it seems? Dont know for sure but assume this is the case.

You know what I wish for? 928 parts prices of yesteryear. The parts were expensive at the time but now they are like rebuilding an F14 tomcat.
Roger however has been great to work with and very fair prices. He has directed me along the way as well. Very valuable resource here thanks again sir : )

Now I just need to figure out whether I continue with the MM install? Or do I hit the cam cover bolts with a mallet and try to get them to come out to get the cover off. Do i heat the cam cover bolts somehow. Spray them with PB blaster and let soak? Catch 22 because if I do the cam covers and the bolts snap then likely the motor needs to come out and i've taken off the dang engine lift hooks, which i understand are not fun to do.

The goal at this time is to get the mm's in, cam covers resealed, and tb/wp back on. Seems like I was close until the cam cover bolt did not come out.
None the less. Thanks everyone. Becuase of this forum and the fine folks here I know so much more than when I started and it has been very helpful. Dwaynes garage, Pintles write ups, Rogers help, Greg Browns eye candy and inspiration, the list goes on.

 

Nice introduction Tsill. Good pictures, too!

Looks like you have a bit of work ahead of you.

Good Luck!

 

Great story! You are definitely an intrepid 928 DIY'er like a lot of us here. One suggestion, go the extra 1/4 mile and pull the motor. All the stuff you are fiddling with will be a lot easier, not to mention all the other stuff you will have to fix eventually, head gaskets, etc. Might as well get them out of the way in one lump. Good luck and I look forward to following your progress!

 

+928 on Nate's suggestion! I've been working on my '85 for about 20 months and my single biggest regret is not pulling the engine. Instead, I've struggled with tight fits on the timing belt, intake refresh, oil pan gaskets, motor mounts, transmission vacuum line, etc. All of that would have taken 1/4 the time if I had just spent a day pulling the engine and being able to work on it more comfortably. When I get my next 928 (that's right *when*, not *if*) I'm pulling the engine if it needs any extended work.

 

I have definitely thought about pulling the motor. I have to be close at this point to getting it out. Would be so much easier to clean. I do think it needs head gaskets but man that opens the wallet up wide...who knows what could happen after that.

What would it take to get it out?
remove motor mount nuts on crossmember
get the injector wiring and other looms out of the way
remove 2 bolts in rear housing and move back a couple inches
have to remove the clutch? I need to research this.
undo 4 bellhousing bolts

and when it goes back in what can be attached already to drop in?

intake complete?
new mm's installed ready to go on crossmember?

the thought of it is just overwhelming. I am down for doing it right. When I started I thought I would be done in 3 weeks. Now 20 months seems reasonable!
thanks gentlemen for the replies

 

Welcome tsill! Great intro, and looking forward to following your progress. Nate is right in suggesting a motor pull, which really insn't that bad - it's what happens after you pull it that will determine what follows with your finances, married life, and social life for the next year or two. Note - read at your peril Seth's Redwitch thread - or use it as an instructional as to where to stop (just teasing you Seth). Anyway, sounds like you got a great platform for a more than reasonable price.

 

If you are going to keep the car, pull it, and you will be way ahead in labor and time, not in parts $ though, that will add up quickly, but as you said they are going up and up, so now is the time to do it.
From the pic's look like it needs it or soon will anyway, its a morning or afternoon job to get one out, bag and tag everything!

 

Well that is the rub. I did read Seth's thread and it scared the hell out of me and also why I named this thread "rebuild". It became clear that an intake refresh somehow means head gaskets...
I really want to pull the motor just for ease of use and likely the cam cover access to any bolts that may need drilled. The other part of me wants to put it all back together with new mm's intake sealed up and new tb/wp. i never even got to drive the thing more than 15 miles. Thats the sucky part.

 

Drive it until winter, then remove the engine. Since the car already runs, it is unlikely there is anything else so terminal that the car can't wait until winter - and you get to zoom around in your new 928 until then!

 

it really all depends on the cam covers being able to seal correctly. If i can get the covers off then i may just do it in the car so I can drive it sooner rather than, sorry Sean : ), a redwitch situation. man you have got some patience!

with that said. if i backed out the passenger side center cam cover bolt that the air pump bracket is connected to, and it would not pull up through the cover, but would thread back in and tighten? assumption then that the standoff came out of the head and i am rethreading both the siezed cam bolt to standoff into the head as an assembly? this seems highly unlikely. I just cant say because i obviously cant see it, but could thread it back. am i missing something?

either way i need to get the covers off now just not interested in snapping bolts.

 

If one wont separate, just remove all that will, and turn those that don't, and remove the cover with them intact.
then deal with them on the bench. 😉

Dave k

 

Thanks Dave. I have decided to pull the motor and am looking to only go so deep as head gaskets. My goal with this car at this point is to get another 50k out of it reliably. If it's on a stand then I think head gaskets make sense. Potentially cam chain "pads". I would very likely reuse my old head bolts. The car ran pretty good considering every intake and oil leak that was possible and a maf that has close to 200k on it with no rebuild. MAF is out to injection labs currently.

If I end up having to rebuild the bottom end then I will send it out. While I could do it, I have rebuilt motors before/transfer cases, actually helped with a 930 trans I would not do it to the level it needs to be done nor do I have any expertise whatsoever on this engine. Shoot I'm asking how to get the cam bolts out : )

 

Best thing to do is read the WSM section on engine removal. Also, in the write-up you'll find you need to remove the bolts on the tranny mounts to lever the entire transaxle rearward to remove the engine. It's not very difficult just follow the steps.

 

Should not have any problems getting another 50k, I have an '85 stick that just turned 244k and runs great w/ PKens chips and an x pipe

You don't have Head bolts on an S3 32v eng, they still used the Studs and they will Neck when re-torqued and a sinking feeling will come over you, BTDT, bite the $ bullet and spend the extra 400 bucks,
Also plan on pulling 2/6 rod bearing and have a look, if good reinstall w/ new nuts.
Plan on all new rubber/seals and bits and a valve job, replace the S3 Chain Tensioners w/ the updated S4's w/ new pads, the early 32v tensioners had issues (and new pads are NLA) these can fail and destroy the cams&valves or give reduced oil pressure issues (the disc inside the tube sticks).

IMO these are very solid engines as far as rings and cyl wear and main crank bearings from what I've seen in 20 years of ownership and wrenching on them.

Keep us updated, and you have made the correct decision IMHO

Dave K

 

Yeah. I earned that.
I am the poster child for WYAIT running out of control. If nothing else, my threads will show you what you can get into.
Pull the engine, do just what you have to do, then put it back in. Pulling the engine is not a one time deal. Nothing says you can't fix what you need to, then pull the engine again at a later date for further work.
I drove the Red Witch for 2 months and 2000 miles. It was GLORIOUS!!! And is the motivation for shoveling money into her.

GOOD LUCK!