Studding the block
01-29-2004, 04:43 AM
#31
Burning Brakes
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Marc,
Have you tried anything stronger than 220k's? If you have only used the "brand R" units, I understand the concern about non-stretch and subsequent failure.
I have studs stronger than "brand R" 220's in my 928, we'll see how they work when I get around to boosting it.
Porsche engineers were very good. For the time. But c'mon guys, they worked with pencils and slide rules for crissake. Every single part of the 928 can be improved by using state-of-the-shelf technology. Right down to the nuts and bolts. If Porsche took on a new 928 as an outsourced (or please, please, IN-house) enginering exercise, it would surely be light-years ahead of what is basically an early 70's design. A really solid early 70's design, but early 70's none the less.
Given a couple of weeks R&D on GM or Ford's virtual car computers, all the stupid crap like oiling problems could be solved, NVH taken to a whole new level, ridiculous driveline issues eliminated, window switches that could last the life of the car, brains that don't self-destruct, HVAC as good as the US automakers, the list goes on and on.
I love my 928, but sometimes we get laughably reverential about Porsche engineering that was good/great at the time. The engineering knowledge base has since expanded exponentially, and the design tools are many orders of magnitude better. The 1970's "state of the art" is mostly "state of the dumpster". Even Porsche's.
Accepting that "those guys really knew what they were doing" is nothing short of a cop-out for not improving a part or system. Sure some parts aren't worth improving, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they all could be better. Sometimes dramatically so.
Greg
Have you tried anything stronger than 220k's? If you have only used the "brand R" units, I understand the concern about non-stretch and subsequent failure.
I have studs stronger than "brand R" 220's in my 928, we'll see how they work when I get around to boosting it.
Porsche engineers were very good. For the time. But c'mon guys, they worked with pencils and slide rules for crissake. Every single part of the 928 can be improved by using state-of-the-shelf technology. Right down to the nuts and bolts. If Porsche took on a new 928 as an outsourced (or please, please, IN-house) enginering exercise, it would surely be light-years ahead of what is basically an early 70's design. A really solid early 70's design, but early 70's none the less.
Given a couple of weeks R&D on GM or Ford's virtual car computers, all the stupid crap like oiling problems could be solved, NVH taken to a whole new level, ridiculous driveline issues eliminated, window switches that could last the life of the car, brains that don't self-destruct, HVAC as good as the US automakers, the list goes on and on.
I love my 928, but sometimes we get laughably reverential about Porsche engineering that was good/great at the time. The engineering knowledge base has since expanded exponentially, and the design tools are many orders of magnitude better. The 1970's "state of the art" is mostly "state of the dumpster". Even Porsche's.
Accepting that "those guys really knew what they were doing" is nothing short of a cop-out for not improving a part or system. Sure some parts aren't worth improving, and there's nothing wrong with that, but they all could be better. Sometimes dramatically so.
Greg
01-29-2004, 12:32 PM
#32
Photoshop Bully
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
OK, OK, Why don't we see what a Cayenne has and let that decide the question. Its a newly engineered V-8 and has turbos. So now we have an answer to the question "What would Porsche do now, studs or bolts if they could do a force fed V-8".
01-29-2004, 01:22 PM
#33
Come on guys. We have to figure this out soon. There are several 928 people who will be either taking thier heads of for a headgasket redo, or putting a totally stripped engine back together for boost in the nbext year or so. I would really like to know what to clamp that head down with.
FYI - 951 guys have also had issues with certain aftermarket studs letting the head lift.
FYI - 951 guys have also had issues with certain aftermarket studs letting the head lift.
01-29-2004, 03:42 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
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Brendan,
I'm not sure that we can get to one "right" answer. I'm afraid this one will remain in the realm of "personal preference" at least until someone can run the powerplant through a complete FEA - which I bet ain't gonna be anytime soon.
Greg
I'm not sure that we can get to one "right" answer. I'm afraid this one will remain in the realm of "personal preference" at least until someone can run the powerplant through a complete FEA - which I bet ain't gonna be anytime soon.
Greg