Mrmerlin

pictures preferrably before you take the belt off so it will be easier to see if something is not correct

STRIKEMASTER

Both old and new oil pump gears are aluminum..Everything that came off the pump shaft went back on, I'll post some pics when I get everything apart..(AGAIN!!) LOL

STRIKEMASTER

More pix with the covers off....Some teeth are more worn than others..It also looks like the belt war riding centered at first, then started to ride forward, more Pix after I get the balancer off...

PorKen

What's the extension on the tensioner/damper? (Hard to tell from the angle but it looks like a lot in the pic.)

FredR

Apologies if I missed anything along the way but are we any closer to understanding what caused the damage to the teeth of the belt? There does not seem to be anything obviously degraded on the sprockets to cause that and with a PKT on board one presumes no idler pinion degradation issues

Last thing the OP needs is to replace the belt and have the same issue on the new one.

Brian'sIris

In post #18, pic 5, I notice there is no idler roller between the belt runs to the passenger side cam. Not sure if you removed it before taking the pic or what, but I suspect that the bolt sticking out in its place might be the cause of damage. Check it for rub marks.

Brian'sIris

STRIKEMASTER

With the PKT there is no mounting bracket for the roller on the passenger side of the WP. The PKT replaces the both stock tensioner and roller...The bolt you referred to in pic #5 does not contact the belt, If it did, the damage would be on the rear edge of the belt...I don't remember if I replaced the thrust washer (part# 928.102.125.02) on the front of the timing gear.. I know I replaced the rear one because it got mangled when I replaced the timing gear..If the thrust washer was bent and I didn't notice it, the bent part may be pinching the teeth of the belt between the gear and the thrust washer..The wear on the belt almost looks 'cyclical': some teeth are more damaged than others..That means a bent part....I'm off work till Tuesday so it looks like I'll be laying on my back all weekend underneath it AGAIN!! (I'm getting TOO OLD for this, It's not like I'm a young pup of 50 anymore!!)

Brian'sIris

I think we must be referring to different bolts. I mean the one circled in the pic:



Not having a PKT myself, I can't comment on why it is OK to remove the idler roller that normally resides there. But I think the belt teeth could rub on this bolt head if something were amiss with the PKT installation. Such could happen if full tensioner extension is reached and the belt is running a bit slack. Have the heads ever been machined?

The 'cyclical' damage you mention is telling, in that a continuous rubbing would damage the whole belt evenly. Perhaps it only rubbed a few times on the bolt I noted, during high revving excursions?

Hoping you figure this out!

- Brian

SeanR

That's nothing to worry about, if your belt is hitting that you have other issues to deal with.

STRIKEMASTER

Extension on the PKT is ~7mm (9mm is about max. extension spec.)



'polished' front thrust washer


"skuffmarks' on the back of the balancer


I don't remember marks on the back when I had it apart last time.


Tracking at oil pump belt is about 2->3 mm from front edge


More oil pump gear










There's the problem: The belt teeth are getting pinched between the gear and the thrust washer...NEXT problem: WHY>>

Now that I have it all opened up:The belt is getting pinched at the crank gear...
Is it possible that, when I replaced the crank gear, did I drive it too far back on the crank???? Is that even possible???

Mrmerlin

based on the marks at the back of the crank damper the front thrust washer was not installed
the belt has been rubbing on the damper and the front edge of the gear has been chewing the belt teeth as it has been riding off the front edge of the gear

NOTE there are two thrust washers, one on either side of the timing belt drive gear,
both f these should be flat and undamaged. replace if any part is bent.

NOTE another possibility is that the crank bolt washer has been turned around and the the damper is not being seated and clamped,
the front bolt washer is installed with the flat side facing the radiator,
the part with the indentation should fit to the crank snout.

NOTE the other possibility is that you also removed the AC pulley and then this has let the front compression washer bottom out on the crank snout thus the damper is not seated and clamped so the belt walks forward, if so then reinstall the AC pulley. and a new belt

STRIKEMASTER

Thanks a lot, Stan.That makes a lot of sense...
Pix #3 shows the inside of the thrust washer, 3rd pic up from the bottom shows it as installed..I reused the old front one, except for 'looking old', it didn't seem bent or damaged..Maybe it was and I just didn't pick up on it. I laid it on a sheet of glass and the rim seemed flat, that doesn't mean the hub area was OK does it?? ALSO I noticed that the AC pulley had a slight wobble to it ( about 1 mm or so) ..I didn't bother with it because AC was not on my FIX IT NOW list at the time...If the hub area of that isn't flat, then I can see how it wouldn't clamp up tight...The crank bolt and washer was on right, cupped side toward the crank nose..
Maybe a stupid question: If the old thrust washer is OK, as in FLAT, and the AC pulley is the problem, Could I: 1- put a new thrust washer on the crank, 2- Then put the old one back on over it, 3- then put the balancer,on, and 4- dispense with the AC pulley???...OR maybe #1,2,3 and keep the AC pulley on too, to increase the 'stack thickness' so it clamps better ?
Anyway, my next problem is getting the pin on the PKT to retract ...It's being OBSTINATE about that...LOL
I may end up driving 'The Great White Whale' to the PVGP after all........AAARRRRGGHHH ( we really need an emoji of someone ripping their hair out,,,LOL)

STRIKEMASTER

Well, I found the belt problem( I think). the old thrust washer was HALF the thickness of the new one...That's why the front edge of the belt was getting chewed up...HOWEVER another worm has reared it's ugly head.....
I found a drip of fluid on the hydrollic flex hose for the clutch slave cylinder.....AND I'm missing an exhaust stud on the passenger side...Parts ordered...
So I WILL be taking 'The Great White Whale' to the PVGP

GregBBRD

I wouldn't add in anything "extra". The OD of the A/C pulley isn't going to affect the timing belt....it is essentially just a spacer near the ID and that's all that matters to the belt.

You will get another chance to come back into this area and check out the new belt:
Those cracks in the rubber of your damper mean that you will be back here, again.....soon.