bcdavis

You know, last night I was watching some of the racing videos of Quick Carl racing his supercharged CIS car. I know Marc was saying that superchargers have not been tested for durability. But if you watch those videos, he is really hard on the car. It is not being driven lightly at all. So if you want to talk about an accelerated testing program, the racetrack is sure as hell a pretty intense environment for an engine. He's slamming it up to redline every shift. I am also assuming that the earlier cars are not as beefy as the s4, when it comes to internal components. Obviously, time will tell...

But I would agree that a supercharged car needs to be properly tuned and cared for, or it will have problems. But a stroker will not have any problems, even if it has a vaccuum leak, or a fuel management issue, etc. It will not melt down. It will just run rough, etc... Just like a stocker.

pappy92651

Hello Tim and BC,

Your input is extremely helpful (share the knowledge). I am not an advocate of any approach except one that works well in the required application. Each systems has it's own advantages.

I'm going to share what I find as I go. In the past 24 hours a lot of information has been flooding in.

If the turbo route were an option it would be fairly easy to get a kit with CARB approval. This would be a huge advantage when it comes time to smog the car. We have tons of turbo shops all over CA. Getting the engine management system right could be a big challenge.

I found one supercharger kit that they say comes with a CARB approval, Forced-Air Systems of Texas. This is a centrifugal Vortech system which has been in use since 2001. They indicate 20 satisfied customers.

It would be interesting to find out if anyone is planning to offer a CARB approved roots style blower kit. If that were the case there would be a significant number of CA customers. The number of 928's in my town has increased from 5 to 25 in one year! People want this car. Do you know if anyone is planning to offer a 50 state roots style kit?

I called my mechanic and asked him what he would charge to smog and re-install my supercharger every 2 years = $3000.00. That was a significant cost adder.

Tim, could you tell me more about the difficulties you had with your supercharger installation?

If I could install a supercharger that was CARB approved this might become a reasonable option. I do not like the idea of removing the blower every 2 years just to pass smog. How could we get CARB approval?

I also like the idea of building a stroker motor on the stand. 928 Intl has used 89 5.0L engines for $4500.00.

Fastest928

Tim,
We DO! We are just finishing two engines that are built from cores, one of the 928's is still running and will have the native engine pulled next week, and one is ready to start once we have the high perf clutch assy back.

FYI - Louis' engine was built from cores, as were others.

Marc
DEVEK

Tim Murphy

I highly doubt that FAST has CARB approvoal. If they told you they had CARB approval I would ask them for the CARB number and you can look it up yourself. I don't want to bash those guys because I actually like them but if they have 20 successfull installations, those are the quietest group of 928 owners known to mankind.

The $3000 quote to remove the sc sure is a WAG by your mechanic, especailly not knowing what the system entails. I think I could do it in 4 hours easy and the car would look completely stock for the test. Even if it took 5 hours at $100/hr would only be $500 every 2 years.

Cut off the sc belt (20 secs, replace every 2 years)
Remove the sc (20min)
Remove the sc bracket (10min)
remove the fans (5min)
Remove the intercooler(5min)
Cap the oil feed line to the sc (1min)
Remove the super FMU (10mins, comes out as a unit)
Replace the stock fuel regulator and lines (10 min, goes in as a unit)
Replace stock air box (5min)
Replace stock fans (10min)

Re-installing would be just the reverse accept add 15 min for the new sc belt.

I think this adds up right. Still a pain in the A$$ but what else can I say.
I have heard of people registering their cars online and just picking a county where the car is kept that doesn't have the testing. That is all I know about that though.

Gretch

And even that sounds like overkill Tim, You could leave the fans and the FMU in place and move the air filter to the front of the intercooler and leave that in place also. None of those things being in place should alter the results and all are reasonable aftermarket products that a mechanic can easily understand.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Tim .."I don't want to bash those guys because I actually like them but if they have 20 successfull installations, those are the quietest group of 928 owners known to mankind. " ......... No Tim the quietest "group" is the DEVEK stroker "group" .......................but perhaps they are still waiting for "their" engines ..........

Gretch

CAT FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bcdavis

FAST's kits are *not* CARB approved.
Someone posted that on Rennlist, because they misread their statement that their kits are completely smog legal, in all states *except* California... But the big print on their website says "SMOG LEGAL". Which it is... In most other states. I contacted them to ask them specifically about CARB certification, and they said it does *not* have CARB approval.

The same will be true of any turbo kit, custom or manufactured...
You can't be modifying your engine or exhaust from stock, and have it be legal. It's not allowed at all in CA. In CA, to be legal, everything has to stay *exactly* stock, as it was when the car was built. Anything you do has to be hidden completely, or removed when you get the car smogged. That is why a stroker crank is so ideal. It is completely hidden *inside* the engine... Anything you bolt on, has to be removed...

People who run NOS on street cars in CA, often hide the injectors by mounting them *under* the manifold, so they are hidden from view.

Fastest928

Gretch,
Nah...not worth it.

It is tough being at the "top" of the power pile.....Like they say " it is a tough job, but somebody has to do it".

I am sure that when Pappy makes a decision, and if he chooses our level of perfromance and needs references, he can give me a call. We have very willing folks that he can talk to....some who have been driving their 928s for 7 years and driving hard!

Marc
DEVEK

Jim bailey - 928 International

Marc T ........"Durability and reliability is unmatched at this perfromance level." ..................... why is it that I can only remember ( Alzheimers ? ) TWO customers who ever mentioned having a Devek stroker engine street car (one was at Devek days, another wound up in court ) and Don Hanson with his "race car" engine which broke a timing belt took out all the valves ? Now a question for B C .....have you ever seen a Devek stroked 928 , talked with the OWNERs , how many such people ? The internet is an interesting place "information" gets repeated and repeated . B C you are certainly entitled to have your opinions , I was just curious what facts first hand information they are based on ..............I just find it odd that the "owners" of stroker engines are such a quiet , noncommunicative group willing to spend a great deal of money on a 928 , $20,000 - $30,000 . Yet do not care enough about 928s to attend 928 gatherings , chat on the internet , join the 928 Owners club , brag about it a bit ............ odd , very odd ..( perhaps like having slept with " pick your fantasy" and not telling anyone ) . On the other hand , many of the supercharger guys seem very vocal , you can not get them to shut up ! Even if you want to ................

Tim Murphy

TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!

Jim bailey - 928 International

Tim what kind of a " pile " is that ?? B S ? ............blower / supercharger ??

Drewster67

Anyone know of anyone who has a forced stroker motor?. I would like to see that.

Jim bailey - 928 International

The yellow track car ...Big Bird ...is about 6 liters and blown ....two GTS cars have gone down that road ...only one still has the blower . Both have needed to be rebuilt / replaced after / during the process . With a stroker crank moving the piston so much farther it is tough to keep the compression down yet keep the rods of a reasonable length and the piston skirts long enough to wear well in the cylinder bores .

Randy V

I knew it couldn't last...

But, Jim et al pose a solid unanswered question - who are all these satisfied FAST SC and DEVEK stroker customers?

I'm gettin' the feeling that they may be direct decendants of the Wizard of Oz...

- "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"...