John..

I'd like to see performance numbers on all the options. No, my car doesn't have over 400 to the street, but the mid range is impressive and with the gearing the car accellerates very hard, but I am certain it will run the tach to redline in 5th without issue. I could use a taller rear end gear in the car, or a 6th gear would be nice...but not possible. Where the hell will I ever drive over 165+/- on US roads anyway? I think I have maybe seen 135 in that car once or twice... I always thought 3000 at 80 MPH was too high for that V8, but I like what the gearing allows for down low. I'm sure Euro heads and intake on my car would help somewhat, but I don't have the time or patience to do that right now, nor will I.

We hear about the centrifugal S4's and their stupendous performance, but the only charged cars we have accelleration data for are mine, Carl's CIS (soon to be L-Jet as well as Andy's setup. All are very impressive numbers and can shock a lot of new stuff into hiding. 1/2 second here, 4 MPH there doesn't amount to a heck of a lot on the street.

With all of this R&D, I'm sure someone up there has a $140 G-Tech they can slap in the car and do some accelleration runs. My guess is the values won't be significanly better than what Andy has already posted, but again these are drag race times and don't tell the whole picture either. It would be great to see some numbers guys, so do tell. To me, dropping the hammer and having the rear tires smoking is totally useless, except for burning your cash on high octane fuel and rubber.

I just think if you are touting being "King of the Hill", then some performance numbers are in need to quantify that statement. Then there is the whole issue of a 600 RWHP 928 without the capability to put it down to the road effectively, so you end up just wasting time, lots of $$$, rubber and fuel for the sake of posting a RWHP 12 second dyno pull on Rennlist. Did I mention how many head gaskets and other stuff you have to blow up to get to that level? I could drop a lot more money and find maybe 50 more HP, but why bother when the car is enough of a handful under boost as it is? What is next, Nitrous Oxide to post the highest number? Seems like a 150 HP shot would be easy for the bragging rights, but who cares?

Porsches have always been about balancing chassis, suspension, braking and powertrain and if I look at the number of street cars with 600 HP or more, only a few come to mind, Carrera GT, Lambo and Enzo for example, but take a look at those cars and the chassis and suspension development in them. I guess what I am asking is, sure you can make it, but where can you use it and it is worth the headaches, money and time to get there?

For me, I believe I have an excellent running street car that will go the distance and provide years of enjoyment without the need for constant rebuilds and tinkering. As much as I like to work on the cars, I prefer to enjoy them (I know some of you find that hard to believe). I had to fix my distributor in 20 degree weather last night on the side of the highway, so what I am saying is after a while you have to say "I am done tinkering" and enjoy what you have. It is nice to be able to turn the key and drive it, which is what Dr. Porsche wanted the car to be able to do in the first place.

If I ever get the time to build a turbocharged S4 I would probably drop the compression to 8.5:1, do the Nikasil and run 12 lbs or so through it and quit worrying about having the highest dyno number out there. It becomes self-defeating at some point and you end up spending all the money in the world to chase that last 50 HP you can't use anyway...

I agree with Carlos on the turbocharger statement. When you can get that exhast back pressure down lower than intake pressures, then the turbocharger really starts to shine. The LeMans winning R8 and Bently wear some healthy Garretts and do so for a crazy 24 hour period that would turn any of our boosted 928s into a pile of garbage by the end of the race.

For reference, the shop that Dynoed my pile of parts has built a few very powerful single turbo Mustangs, one with well over 1100 HP. The compressed air was routed to the back of the car through a heat exchanger and then back to the engine. It was a crazy setup.

Jim bailey - 928 International

The Porsche factory race cars ....934 , 935, 954 , 962 which dominated sports car racing racing for so years were all turbo charged ........even the 944 GTR (like the one Kelly Moss stuffed a 711 HP 928 engine into) was a turbo 4 cylinder said to make about 750 HP . The little 4 cylinder 2 valve at that level of out put was rather unreliable even with a special race block , crank , rods , valves , special head with additional cooling . They had bearing issues etc..... Some of the race engines (911 derived ) the cylinder heads were welded to the cylinders , that solved any head gasket issues but made it impossible to change the valves !!!

Tony

To me its the fun of "hot rodding" and individuality with ones car. The "wasted time" is a hobby and passion for some. Perhaps someday i will wave around a 500...600 hp dyno pull, dunno.

Will the engine sustain itself for a lengthy run to 200mph???
..Dunno..Dont care. Dont plan on doing it.

Maybe i will just head up to Bonneville and run one of those sanctioned timed events and post a 173mph top speed, Then i will "officially" have the worlds fastest 928. (a little smack at Kibort )

Honestly though, 500HP is alot of power, traction is certainly an issue at some point. I dont care, ill just put my foot down slower. If i want to melt my tires i can do so.

Could i do it at 350HP???..SURE. Id rather do it with 500 though. If im cruising along at 80mph and goose it and walk away from just about anything on the roads these days, then the 500 hp is worth it.

its all fun and a hobby and thats how i approach this thing...as an individual with some goals and a general interest in "hot rodding"
Ya cant get too serious about it guys.

With an aftermarket engine mgt system you can get traction control for your 928. Perhaps in a few years this technology will be pretty cheap and we will be editing our fuel maps and ignition curves on the palm pilot as we drive. heck they are doing it now! 500-600-700 etc HP can be managed.

Go to a SUPRA forum and ask a guy why he wants 900hp.?
If you have a dog, ask him why he...uh...well..never mind.?

Because they can and they enjoy doign it.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Tony interesting quotes lifted from another site ........."As reported in Porsche's Anniversary Book by Peter Vann: Hans Mezger, the
master builder of racing car engines at Porsche, loved to tell his story:

"It was a cool morning, rich in oxygen", he reports, "and the 5.4 liter
12-cylinder engine had behaved well on the test rig. We wanted to give it
one more quick performance check before we sent it by plane to Roger Penske
in America." As Mezger explains what then happened, the boost pressure in
his voice rises noticeably. "But when the engine had reached the rated speed
and full load and we began to register it's peak output, the needle kept
jerking ahead - far beyond any of the values we had ever measured. For a few
seconds the engine reached 1,450 bhp. This performance explosion proved
later to have been caused by a defect: the boost presure control had failed.
Normally, no engine can survive anything like that, but afterwards, the
12-cylinder continued to run like a charm." This made the 917/30's engine
the most powerful unit ever used in a road racing car. In normal racing
circumstances, it developed more than 1,100 bhp and burned a liter of
aviation gas every kilometer!

Another interesting quote describing the same car was Hans Stuck: "I've
always said that a car needs at least a thousand horsepower to be really
good and safe."

By comparison, the winningest car in road racing, the Porsche 962 only
developed around 680 bhp. Yet it was described this way:

"Just a moment ago we were at a standstill, now we have reached 100 kph. In
2.6 seonds. No more than the blink of an eye. Five seconds later we are
already traveling twice as fast, and immediately we can see the first bend
at LeMans on the cross-hairs between the two crouching front fenders. Close
to the ground, your eyes at a truck's axle height, every change of direction
is a strength test for the arm and shoulder muscles. The enormous
centrifugal forces cause your head to swing back and forth helplessly, and
the chassis presses up through the flesh and reaches the bones. Right after
that, you get a real piece of Le Mans atmosphere: a long, almost perfectly
straight road that is the famous Les Hunaudieres, on which this car reached
the 360-370 mark lap after lap for 24 hours."

"Speed itself is not the problem. The problem is controlling it. Destructive
forces, technical defects, and driving errors that can deliver some nasty
surprises, all develop in direct proportion to the acceleration. The way
that Bob Wollek goes into the bend proves that he must have grown up with
the maxim: "He who brakes, loses." You expect some braking, a feeling of
deceleration, but it never comes. There are hardly any intermediate stages.
The 962 hurtles around the corners as though it were not a car on four
wheels. It rides as though it were running on rails, and develops a
phenomenal level of transverse acceleration." The passenger stammers after
the ride, "Was that at more or less racing speed?" Bob replies in his quiet,
never waste a word manner, "about two thirds." And Bob Wollek should
know.... he spent 55,000 miles on the track in the 962."

Tony I really do not think there is ever too much horsepower !!! Have fun ...

Jim bailey - 928 International

tony...."If you have a dog, ask him why he...uh...well..never mind.?
Because they can and they enjoy doign it. " .....................Tony ,that reminds me of the two guys who happened to see a dog .............. One said to the other " you know there are times when I wish I could do that " .......his friend looked at him and said " Well maybe if you knew the dog better ..." . (bad Santa)

bcdavis

Awwwww man! Ewwwwwwwwwwww!

Jim bailey - 928 International

Yes Brian , there are some things which are better left unsaid .............they simply leave a bad taste in your mouth .......

Tony

Im not even going to go there!!!

BTW, hows that YOGA class coming along Jim?


"..and now for something completely different..." back to the thread at hand. Sorry guys.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Tony that was Yoda class ...not Yoga ........" Don't try , Do "..... on the other hand some simply find me to be " trying " .