Rich9928p

We like to knock Corvette and now the new Ford Cobra for copying the 928 transaxle set-up. Well, I toured the Autostadt museum (VW Werks in Wolfsburg) in 2002 and saw an exhibit, the Lancia Aurelia. I was surprised to see that it had a very nice transaxle with inboard drum brakes.

Quoting a description of the set-up: "When the Aurelia B20 GT was introduced in 1951 it set new standards as the first real GT. The B20 GT offered a V6 engine, independent rear suspension with semi trailing arms and hydraulic shock absorbers, rear placed transaxle, compact elegant styling and performance and excellent road holding to match."

So who knows, we may owe thanks to the Italian designers of the Aurilia for the 928's good driving manners! However I'm sure that the transaxle was in use long before that.

Bryan

Lancia is the subject of ridicule just as much as GM - and for many of the same reasons: quality control, strange designs, crummy materials. It doesn't pay to be the innovator, but it does pay to let someone else do the innovating and take the lumps then be the copycat. Just ask Lexus, Infiniti, etc.

Several Ferraris from the 60s and 70s used a transaxle as well. The rigid torque tube is also not a Porsche first. Ferrari changed their transaxle layout to use a rigid torque tube on the 275GTB and the Daytona I believe.

Porsches are totally awesome, don't get me wrong, but they aren't really an innovator. Superb engineering and quality construction, yes. But I can't really think of too many Porsche firsts aside from the current PCCB system that they're having all kinds of problems with (that'll teach 'em).

Bryan

Lizard928

Bryan,

have you done any research of the 959?

sweanders

You are the first person I've heard of claiming Porsche not to be innovative.

If you have a look at the racing history of Porsche it's really hard to believe that they haven't been innovative.. And one more thing, do you have a clue of who designed the Volkswagen?

Erik - Denmark

Hello Rich,
Here is one more - Nice copy -
Regards from Erik in Denmark
PS: Quess what car it is?

Nathan Valles

Innovative or inventing?

A whole lot of real good stuff had been invented already. New radical inventions are few and far between. Mostly all of the innovations in the last 40 years havbe all been variations on things that have already been made or already been tried. New technology and materials make a lot of things that were once tried and failed into things that can now be tried and succeed.

Porsche is definitely innovative, but like all good companies they build on existing technology and don't try and reinvent the wheel with every new part.

dr bob

I remember torque tubes as standard fare on American cars of the forties and earlier. Didin't work so hot with live rear axles and all, but it did make it possible to use flimsy body structures and have reasobnable rear ride quality. Cross-type u-joints and drivelines are a fairly recent "innovation". So torque tubes are reappearing.

More than a casual amount of the "innovation" we see is just application of known technologies in "innovative" ways. It's alsoo reasonable to think that most of the drivers today haven't a clue what was underneath their grandfathers' cars.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Dr Bob , next thing you know you will be telling everyone that a spyder/spider was a light weight wagon (carriage) favored by young speed freaks to improve the horsepower to weight ratio when attached to Mr Ed . Yes my hair / beard is gray ........

2V4V

I would have to defend Nathan's point - Porsche is seldom the great inventor, but is often the best (and leading) executor, of neat stuff swirling around in the automotive miasma.

Porsche never has, and surely never will have the capital to invent and create on the scale of MB (hell, even GM). Sure, every now and then they crank out something really 'new', but for the most part, it's all about the execution of ideas, not creating ideas themselves.

GM, Ford, MB, Japan Inc., etc. are granted patents at a rate that would make your head spin. Why? Because they can afford to have more guys doing R&D than Porsche can.

The real trick is in the execution. Could the 917 have been built by anybody BUT Porsche? Ferrari - maybe, but it would break after 5 laps.
Ford, GM - sure, but it'd never happen. They have the talent, but corporate America is so, so, so, screwed up that it would never be allowed by some comittee somewhere.

There was nothing particularly groundbreaking in the tech of the 917, but the execution of that extant tech was remarkable, and that made the whole car groundbreaking.

As to PCCB, the aftermarket might solve the problem before Porsche does. They see the market as poentially huge on the OEM side. MB is also in development with a far lower cost, more reliable piece of rotor technology.

As to the 959, it was all extant tech. Really expensive, some cutting edge, some basically straight off the race car, but still extant. It was the fact that somebody rolled all that stuff into one package then put it on the street that made it remarkable.

Sometimes it's not the idea, it's what you do with the idea that counts.

Which is why I still love my Porsche.

Greg

Erik - Denmark

What car was it?

Erik - Denmark

Here you have the wonderfull car
Actually that is designed of a danish designer ' Henrik Fisher' - The price in Denmark is approximately 3.300.000 DKK = 550.000 US$

Erik - Denmark

and one more

Erik - Denmark

And from the rear - When I become a rich man, I will buy a Aston Martin DB9
Regards from Erik in Denmark

Jim bailey - 928 International

Some interesting comments ..." Airomobile
The Airomobile was a one off prototype that although stimulated great interest, never made it into production. Plans for the Airomobile were first drawn up in 1934 by Paul Lewis in the USA. Lewis believed that the 3-wheeled configuration would meet his needs for streamlining and economy. After many technical problems were sorted out with the the vehicle it was eventually built in 1937.

The 1937 Airomobile.


The vehicle was powered by a horizontally opposed, 129-cu.in overhead valve, air cooled four cylinder unit (57hp) created by the Dorman Marks Engine Company . This unit was later to find great success in light aeroplanes. The body was created from steel and was very aerodynamic with it trailing to the rear and having two large fish like fins. The Airomobile did have a very low centre of gravity and was said to take corners faster than any 4-wheeler at the time. Lewis toured the USA on a promotional tour with the Airomobile covering over 45,000 miles. Prospective dealers were told that they would not be able to follow the Airomobile for one mile over rough terrain without damaging their driving mechanism. Lewis would then drive through ploughed fields and ditches without the need to slow down and return to show no damage had been sustained to the vehicle. As a result many dealers became interested in the Airomobile and Lewis was able to establish possible dealers throughout the USA.

In 1938 the Airomobile was slightly redesigned with a new front section that included the lights being moved from the top of the wings and built into them. Lewis again toured the USA but interest in the vehicle had diminished and plans to put the vehicle into full production were squashed with the onset of the second World War and so the vehicle never became anything more than a prototype. The vehicle was studied by Porsche in 1937 and they took great interest in the vehicle's flat-four transaxle design. Shortly afterwards a very similar design appeared in the Volkswagon Beetle and went on to power it for many years." ........... Like I said interesting .....is nothing sacred ? -- air cooled , flat four , transaxle Perhaps we should just be happy that Porsche added a fourth wheel !!!

PorKen

Let's see...

Car of the Year
Aluminum V8
Torque Tube
Rear Transaxle
Independent Rear Suspension
50/50 Weight Distribution
Unibody Construction

The 1961 Pontiac Tempest!

Click images for larger

Little Indians Chapter of the Pontiac-Oakland Club International