potdog

If you give it out you shoul be able to take it.

potdog

[/QUOTE]
If you give it out you should be able to take it

Carl Fausett

Greg, You ordered protection plates for an S. If you attempted to fit them to an S4, GT, or GTS, that's why they did not fit right. All you had to do was ask and we would have swapped them out for you.

linderpat

IBTA

GregBBRD

OK. I'm not sure that was an option when I ordered those, but I'll take you at your word....I did not see that here was a choice.

All is well that ends well. Your S4 protection plates hang way too low, for use in my client's cars. (Average ride height is about 160mm.) Or perhaps our roads are worse than yours and our driveways are steeper?

I've removed a couple sets of your plates and installed mine....because people were tired of "grinding their way" up their own driveways.

In my humble opinion, you really need to do some testing, before you sell stuff.

Petza914

My car sits pretty low and I don't bang Carl's protection plates frequently - maybe twice a year tops. I do know I'd prefer that they not be shorter as that would either compromise the level at which protection is offered or make me replace them more frequently.




I can also contribute that I had Carl essentially built this car mechanically for me about 4 years ago, and has to be one of the highest 928MS content vehicles driving around. To date, the only problems I've had with it is a burned up fuel pump relay after an extended WOT pass of my wife's 997 (but worth it) and a supercharger pulley that came loose and wore the inside of (replaced by Carl at no charge for the part or for shipping). Otherwise, it has started every time and drives great. It has done a round trip from SC to Chicago and regularly does 3 hour, one way trips to Charlotte, Atlanta, Columbia, and an annual visit to Banner Elk (SITM).

How much 928MS content:
Stage 2 Supercharger Kit
6-speed Z06 Transmission Conversion with GPS based speedometer
Koni coilovers with sport springs
200A Alternator
Upper & Lower Engine Cross Braces
Upgraded 83 clutch, flywheel, & intermediate plate
Aluminum Radiator & Coolant Tank
Push/Pull Radiator Fans with controller
Stainless Y-Pipe
Borla Exhaust
Skid Plates
Xenon Headlight Conversion Kit
and probably a bunch more not on the top of my head from a build 4 years ago.


Services Tune-up, replace vacuum hoses plugs & wires, install new engine wiring harness, timing belt and water pump, intake refresh, replace steering rack with rebuilt unit, replace aluminum ball joints, install customer supplied GTS brakes (which he made work when everyone else said it couldn't be done on a '79 OB) & stainless brake lines, install customer supplied H4 headlight kit with Xenon Bulb conversion

I also recall not long ago that a bunch of people here who are bad-mouthing Carl were the same ones asking him to make a run of his Cross braces without the 928 Motorsports logo for them, which he eventually agreed to do - so evidently, not all of the products aren't to their liking, especially when they want something...

Give me a break .... this community to too small to have this type of petty crap going on year after year after year.

traxtar928

That invoice is for last year, but he was referring to something 'a couple of years ago'?? I think you're both referencing different orders. Also, if Greg makes his own protection plates, why does he order some from Carl as recently as 1 year ago? When did he release his plate?

Edit: I'll also chime in on ride height and the height of Carl's plates. My 928 is VERY low, and I'm due for a suspension overhaul. So low, in fact, that my tires will ever-so-slightly rub the fender lip while turning, when I have a passenger in the car. Granted, that is more of an offset issue (I'm running Mile Miglia turbo twist replicas which are not the best offset, plus a 235/40/18 tire). I find the height of his plates to work just fine for me. I would rather have the skid plates rub occasionally, knowing that it's 1/2" below my alternator and other important bits.





Also, playing the engineering devil's advocate (I'm a HUGE fan of GB's designs), my 928MS plates have bent in two different ways, depending on the object I hit. I think that the 928MS and GB plates will behave differently depending on the impact. I'm honestly not concerned with weight savings on an aluminum skid plate, and I'm not sure really anyone in this thread is trying to save weight like that. My major priority with a skid plate is for it to be as robust as reasonably possible. The weak point for mounting any skid plate is the thin tow hook tab that's welded to the frame. You want a plate that is as strong as possible, but not so strong that it would rip off that tab that the tow hook plate relies on. It's almost ideal to bend under heave impact because it's easier AND cheaper to replace the skid plate than it is to remove the bumper, undercoat protection, fab a new tab, weld it back on, protect the exposed metal, and reinstall body work. So, I think that both designs using aluminum over steel is ideal.

Here are the failure modes I've experienced:


Metal turn lane bumps - Danger!

In one case, a skid plate AND tow hook plate bent outward so it was pointing at the corner of the car. This happened when I had to make a last minute lane change into a turning lane, but there were metal turning lane bumps in the road. Without time to react, I went right over them and they hit the skit plate. Luckily, the plates were the lowest thing on the car and the oil pan was spared, but I had to take a big lever and crank on it to twist the plates back to parallel as best as I could, then remove the skid plate and tow hook plate and hammer the tab back into normal position using a socket extension and dead blow hammer. The only way to really get in there and do a proper realignment of the tab is to remove the whole bumper.

In another case, the skid plate was bent lengthwise towards the inside of the car so it was becoming parallel with the road surface. This happened after falling into a pothole on the expressway. It was basically a compression impact with side load, so the plate buckled. As before, the plate still protected the alternator and oil pan and did its job. I'm wondering about Greg's design, with a thinner cross section across the length of the plate from the 'weight reduction holes', would more easily bend in half than a solid plate would? It can handle pure compression just fine (think of an I-Beam), but road impacts are rarely pure compression, so would that make Greg's design potentially worse than the 928MS design in that respect? Again, pure engineering devil's advocate.

Just adding my own personal experience to the discussion with some anecdotal stories of how my 928 plates have handled some major impacts, and wondering how the design differences in Greg's plate would handle the same impacts.

Carl Fausett

You assume I don't, and you are mistaken. I'm the guinea pig around here, I test everything on one of my own 928's before it ever goes to market. Point of order: that's why our Delrin steering rack mounts never made it to our website - they didn't pass testing!.

Here is how far my S4 plates protrude. I wouldn't say it's "too much" but rather, "just enough". But - too each his own...

merchauser

I thought I saw something that looked like a fireplace grate which covered the entire width of the
front end??. perhaps that is overkill? is someone making that style of protection plate, or was that
someone's garage handy work?

GregBBRD

Is your car a 1987 or later car, with the very low hanging fruit of an oil cooler or a radiator protection cross brace?
​​​​
Note that this is what we are discussing, here.

I do not offer protection plates for earlier cars....I think Carl has that covered.

I'm, quite simply, trying to provide a product for a specific vehicle with specific issues.....and spent a whole bunch of time/effort/money doing that

I'm done with that and mine are different/better, for the reasons stated.

People are free to buy whatever they think works better or are cheaper.

Speedtoys

I dunno..buy something and move on.

To me there are two kids of PP buyers:

One feels the car design can lead to a problem. AC and alt low down, and how they attach can lead to block damage....and this is a solution attending to a problem.

The other, feels the car has to look good, and the PP are hoping that any interference will happen along the plane of protection they offer, a focused disaster looking for a problematic way out of danger.

I snagged my spoiler once. I raised my car to a happier place to address the problem, and I will soon invest in PP as hopeful insurance.

Another owner snags his oil cooler twice in a weekend AND spoiler.(and is a pretty low car)..and rushes to buy PP. And PP don't protect snagging the edge of the spoiler...


The cars in good share are, IMHO, appreciating at a pace that exceeds ones willingness to 'look good' and create documentable damage, but to each their own.

Wisconsin Joe

Wow. This went sideways fast.

To go back to the actual question:

I have an early car. I have a set of Carl's 'early car' plates on it. They've been on 3 years or so.

My tow hooks were already a bit bent, so they don't sit perfectly flat. It doesn't seem to matter. The instructions are pretty clear, and they suggest that the plates will fit 'better' one way than the other, and to test both ways to see what fits best.

I ride a bit low, but not excessively. I hit the plates every so often. Maybe once every other week, maybe not quite that much. It usually happens when I turn left into a driveway and have to go a bit fast to clear oncoming traffic. The vast majority of my 'hits' are fairly light. Every once in a while, I hit a pothole, dip or 'surprisingly steep' driveway and get a good hard "thud". Those are the ones that would likely damage the spoiler.

I have scuffed up the lower edge of them fairly well. Last year, I had them off to do the OPG, and simply took a file and rimmed the burr off the sides. They haven't lost any significant height.
I recall someone (Jake?) had a set that had been on for a while and had lost enough height to warrant welding a bead onto the bottom to restore them. It's something I keep in mind, but haven't needed yet.

I've gotten a couple of things from Carl. No problems getting through, no issues with the stuff I've gotten. No need for any returns.

Petza914

No, my car is a '79 K-Jet car. The aftermarket bumpers and lighting make it appear newer tgsn it actually is.

GregBBRD

Yes, those cars have 3" more clearance than a car with a front oil cooler.

Different animal.

Petza914

Wow, that's a big difference, especially when you consider how much clearance it looks like remains when cornering fairly aggressively.