When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
SeanR and Greg regularly share some casual guidance on the dangers of using knock-off parts. I'm sure Stan and the others who hold tools to keep food on the table will agree too. A part that fails, even if it's a customer-supplied part, offers a measure of liability. That "liability" might be the costs of rework/replacement of only the part if they are lucky. But the "sender reads full-scale but there's this knocking noise now" situation can quickly become a massive liability for a replacement engine, using this example. I'm amazed that DIY owners are willing to assume that liability themselves when choosing the cheap easy and convenient options for otherwise critical pieces on their cars. This is magnified nX times when the engine is more valuable, and the "normal" operating conditions are much closer to design limits.
At this point in the world-marketing and easy-knock-off world we now live in, there's the next concern about cheap parts masquerading as good parts. As much as I love finding a bargain, I also trust our dedicated vendors to source the correct bits. Sometimes it's stupid stuff like extra-durable fuse assortments, with fuses that survive at the expense of the wiring they are intended to protect. Sometimes it's a water pump that looks just like a factory or brand-name pump. Or an ignition switch or a critical switch or sender or a relay or a [name your part]. It's Russian Roulette really. I hate getting stranded by Stupid Stuff, and I hate having failures from making stupid choices on purpose. To keep the car reliable enough to be in "jump in and drive anywhere" condition, why add known-stupid variables on purpose? I know there are owners who actually pride themselves on how they seem to be able to keep their cars alive on substitute bits, or in spite of avoided maintenance work. Good on you! Many "it ran when until I parked it" folks have driven that road ahead of you.
I'm with you , but didnt think a part like this could be an issue, so i didnt do much research. in fact, i thought because of the name it was german built and would reduce the risk. dont think it was cheap at all, just wanted fast. i think i got it on ebay i dont even remember. ill have to check .. again, i totally agree, and spend what ever it takes to take the risk out of the parts. recently, i bought the factory caps and rotors because i wanted porsche new. cost a LOT more , but worth the piece of mind in solving the idle issues. (still trying to hunt that down) anyway, things like water pumps have NOT been made because of only cost. again, ive had a porsche pump fail too. all the pumps ive ever bought eventually failed and took the word or 928intl on the Geba pump i put in last to hold up and so far it has but im keeping a close "ear" on it . so far, 2 years of racing and so far so good. I spend the money that most dont on making sure the engine is safe, but more than that, i take constant checks to make sure its running as it should. often oil changes, good oil, oil analysis, name brand filters, along with making sure the car is actually driven properly as well......... (i.e. never beat on the car when cold, etc)
EDIT: i just checked my ebay and didnt buy it there ... is this a product that our 928 sellers sell??
Last edited by mark kibort; 09-04-2018 at 01:45 PM.
Roger gives the option to buy those but I think he advises against it. I know he sells a number of them because people want the cheaper option. Much like the Geba pump, he can sell it but won't offer any warranty for it. Have to check with him to see on something like this.
Personally, I despise anything that has URO on the packaging. Even hate their window switches. I do have some customers who opt for the cheaper stuff but I always am sure to document that I can't cover any warranty work when those are used. Verbally and in writing as I've been bit in the **** too many times by giving my usual 1 year on all work.
Roger gives the option to buy those but I think he advises against it. I know he sells a number of them because people want the cheaper option. Much like the Geba pump, he can sell it but won't offer any warranty for it. Have to check with him to see on something like this.
Personally, I despise anything that has URO on the packaging. Even hate their window switches. I do have some customers who opt for the cheaper stuff but I always am sure to document that I can't cover any warranty work when those are used. Verbally and in writing as I've been bit in the **** too many times by giving my usual 1 year on all work.
good information.. never thought something like a oil pressure sending unit could be hard to make decent quality. should have asked the list. warning from me though.......DONT DO IT! buy the "good ones" I cant find my reciept. im sure it was an impulse buy. it seemes to be working for now... guess ill try and see if i can find the reciept, see if i can return it or start saving for another, better one. i think the "good" ones are about $90 and i do remember paying something like $40.
Mark,
My memory is a little hazy, and this may have nothing to do with it.
Sean put a rebuilt harness on my GTS a few years ago and It had the 2 newer style connectors on it. He also put an old style sending unit on it as well. (I think there's a difference between older and newer. Not sure what year the cutoff is) And I think at the time Roger only had the old style. When we fired it up it stuck at 5 bar. Sean had to make some mods to the harness i believe. Now, this doesn't explain it working intermittently, but something is going on there. Also, I believe that if the wires touch, it's sticking at 5 bar. All things that you've probably checked at this point. Sean, feel free to chime in if your memory is better, which I think it is..
Mark,
My memory is a little hazy, and this may have nothing to do with it.
Sean put a rebuilt harness on my GTS a few years ago and It had the 2 newer style connectors on it. He also put an old style sending unit on it as well. (I think there's a difference between older and newer. Not sure what year the cutoff is) And I think at the time Roger only had the old style. When we fired it up it stuck at 5 bar. Sean had to make some mods to the harness i believe. Now, this doesn't explain it working intermittently, but something is going on there. Also, I believe that if the wires touch, it's sticking at 5 bar. All things that you've probably checked at this point. Sean, feel free to chime in if your memory is better, which I think it is..
Good luck with it!
You had a cheap sensor installed so I put in the proper one. The last time you came in with it, the new sensors have a larger connecting nut as opposed to the small 6/7mm nuts with lock washers and one of those fell off.
You had a cheap sensor installed so I put in the proper one. The last time you came in with it, the new sensors have a larger connecting nut as opposed to the small 6/7mm nuts with lock washers and one of those fell off.
sounds like it. a connection is a connection. Mine is odd too. The harness has a spade connector and a ring terminal.. so i just transferred them to the new sensor putting them on the right terminals. anyway, its clearly a sensor issue being my problem. I bend the terminals and torque on the sensor body and then it works as something in the sensor itself was not making contact and now does. dont know what is going on, but after bending it all around, i cant move things or tap on it to make it not work correctly, so maybe its fixed. ill see how it works for a little while and plan on replacing soon
Sometimes things get dropped and suffer internal damage, like a loose/failed internal connection. The sender body can look perfect. That's what triggered the question.
Sometimes things get dropped and suffer internal damage, like a loose/failed internal connection. The sender body can look perfect. That's what triggered the question.
yep, i wonder now... but, it was in perfect shape. no dents or dings on the body and with the vice grips, i was able to "tweak" the terminals pretty easily until the made contact internally. i dont know exactly what i did , because i dont have another one to dissect. but what i bent, is pretty permanent, so im wondering what the connections look like internally.
yep, i wonder now... but, it was in perfect shape. no dents or dings on the body and with the vice grips, i was able to "tweak" the terminals pretty easily until the made contact internally. i dont know exactly what i did , because i dont have another one to dissect. but what i bent, is pretty permanent, so im wondering what the connections look like internally.
Mark,
I tend to be a bit more pragmatic than some when it comes to such things but of course I respect the views of enlightened folks whatever they may be. I try to look at things "from the outside in" and thus the question I often ask myself is "why not?".
The unit I purchased on ebay simply caught my eye in that the picture on the website looked impressive- of course maybe that was a photo of a genuine original- who knows? When the unit arrived I was not expecting much [at $20 including US postage!] but when I opened the little package I was frankly astonished at how "bright and clean" it was. Needless to say that is no precursor to long term performance but it is a good start. I made a test rig using my air compressor and the output signals looked realistic so after leaving it on pressure test for two days I fitted the thing and it has performed flawlessly for nearly two years to date.
The question I ask myself is if someone went to a lot of effort to achieve such on the outside is it logical that they would skimp on the innerds? -again who really knows but I made a decision that it was worth fitting it to see how it lasts. Cheap knock offs usually look what they are- cheap! Now take a step backwards- one purchases a Porsche supplied item in a Porsche box and one gets peace of mind- at a price. Quite often one can go down the local Volkswagen spare parts department and get something identical for half the price or whatever if the agent in the spares department is willing to help. Then one asks the question where do VW get their parts from?- from an outsource of course which nowadays is likely to be where usually Bosch- but where do they get their parts from - China by any chance? The outfit who makes these things knows such items are sold in large numbers around the world and is geared up to make way more than he sells to the original source and then we get the "gray market". The further one gets from the original source of supply "the cheaper it gets". In the States it probably costs $20 to take a dump so quite naturally our instincts are to think that nothing could be viable at this price point but that is not how the Chinese think. Do you really think iPhone pay close to $1000 for their products made in China? -nothing remotely close to it. Probably closer to $50 per unit- they just make them on a huge scale. On the other hand what are the chances some back street outfit can make something that looks good and actually works?
Where the fellow who currently lives in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue may have a point is that the Chinese have little to no scruples about selling their "licensed products" elsewhere. As I said earlier if it looks good then do not discount the possibility that by chance, you have something the same as the original item. Original items fail but they are only supported by a 1 year warranty at the end of the day and they do fail. On the other hand if the thing spits its guts out all over the track and you lose oil pressure before you know what has happened then you have been well and truly "punked". A classic case of risk and reward- you pays your money you takes your chance- feel lucky punk- well do you? At least I tested mine before fitting it- did you? After fitting mine I ran the motor up on the axle stands, let the thing warm up and then did a visual inspection- did you? These are the sort of things one can do to minimise risk and I would do the same even when the part comes in a Porsche box..
Folks like Roger scour the market looking for good deals with credible sources of supply and has a pricing regimen that takes some of that risk and offers some of that reward- never had a problem with anything he has supplied me with to date. I take the point of view that if I source something from outside our established heroes I am increasing my risk factor but I will do what I can to minimise the additional risk.
I tend to be a bit more pragmatic than some when it comes to such things but of course I respect the views of enlightened folks whatever they may be. I try to look at things "from the outside in" and thus the question I often ask myself is "why not?".
The unit I purchased on ebay simply caught my eye in that the picture on the website looked impressive- of course maybe that was a photo of a genuine original- who knows? When the unit arrived I was not expecting much [at $20 including US postage!] but when I opened the little package I was frankly astonished at how "bright and clean" it was. Needless to say that is no precursor to long term performance but it is a good start. I made a test rig using my air compressor and the output signals looked realistic so after leaving it on pressure test for two days I fitted the thing and it has performed flawlessly for nearly two years to date.
The question I ask myself is if someone went to a lot of effort to achieve such on the outside is it logical that they would skimp on the innerds? -again who really knows but I made a decision that it was worth fitting it to see how it lasts. Cheap knock offs usually look what they are- cheap! Now take a step backwards- one purchases a Porsche supplied item in a Porsche box and one gets peace of mind- at a price. Quite often one can go down the local Volkswagen spare parts department and get something identical for half the price or whatever if the agent in the spares department is willing to help. Then one asks the question where do VW get their parts from?- from an outsource of course which nowadays is likely to be where usually Bosch- but where do they get their parts from - China by any chance? The outfit who makes these things knows such items are sold in large numbers around the world and is geared up to make way more than he sells to the original source and then we get the "gray market". The further one gets from the original source of supply "the cheaper it gets". In the States it probably costs $20 to take a dump so quite naturally our instincts are to think that nothing could be viable at this price point but that is not how the Chinese think. Do you really think iPhone pay close to $1000 for their products made in China? -nothing remotely close to it. Probably closer to $50 per unit- they just make them on a huge scale. On the other hand what are the chances some back street outfit can make something that looks good and actually works?
Where the fellow who currently lives in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue may have a point is that the Chinese have little to no scruples about selling their "licensed products" elsewhere. As I said earlier if it looks good then do not discount the possibility that by chance, you have something the same as the original item. Original items fail but they are only supported by a 1 year warranty at the end of the day and they do fail. On the other hand if the thing spits its guts out all over the track and you lose oil pressure before you know what has happened then you have been well and truly "punked". A classic case of risk and reward- you pays your money you takes your chance- feel lucky punk- well do you? At least I tested mine before fitting it- did you? After fitting mine I ran the motor up on the axle stands, let the thing warm up and then did a visual inspection- did you? These are the sort of things one can do to minimise risk and I would do the same even when the part comes in a Porsche box..
Folks like Roger scour the market looking for good deals with credible sources of supply and has a pricing regimen that takes some of that risk and offers some of that reward- never had a problem with anything he has supplied me with to date. I take the point of view that if I source something from outside our established heroes I am increasing my risk factor but I will do what I can to minimise the additional risk.
Fred, we all ask these things as we buy things to maintain our cars. are you " pragmatic" ? are you realistic? are yo u exaggerating a bit. Failure of the oil temp sensor will " Spit its guts" all over the track? really? maybe you are drawing a metaphor for your storys point. You said you have seen and tested the oil pressure sensor. there is a Pin hole that feeds the device. (along with a piston,and a cap facing this pin hole , in a aluminum casting. at worst, it might leak. (and yes that would be bad, but dont exaggerate the risk) the risk IS that when i spin blow a motor up, that i dont see the oil pressure fall. (usually after the fact) however, a failed oil pump, or engine seal , lost of oil to another leak, related to oil pressure could be detected. now that would have to happen at the same time as the oil pressure sensor failure. so, the exposure to risk is quite low for this device.
some of these devices from Germany (porsche and others) are made the best they can be at the costs they have to make them. But, ive had bad waterpumps from porsche. relays that have failed..... there are no guarantees, but i get your point and its why on the real important stuff, i buy genuine porsche. however, in this case, i was fooled. the marketing /packaging of the part , made me think i was buying something German and maybe even OE or OEM. so, shame on me. i wasted $40 , for a temp fix for the pressure sensor.. you dont see me skimping on oil filters, oil, ignition products, wings, wheel bearings, brake pads, rotors , etc...
as far as the Chinese knock offs and our resident of 1600 Pennsylvania ave... he is right, we need to close this door of goods coming from china that are illegal copies, but these days, its not about quality. advancement in technology are allowing the Chinese and their equivalent of "slave labor" to make near idential parts for much cheaper. Ive actually had quite a bit of experience with analyzing complex competitive products from china, both in hardware and software... many times, once they have a casting. blueprint, source code, it is indistinguishable from the original. sometimes if it is a item that is exposed to stress and temp, their casting might be sub par, but generally, their quality , these days, is quite good. we need to buy the best product at the best price... our government needs to make sure, fair trade is being exercised on both sides. its how free markets work. its how we will always be assured to receive the best product at the best price
I have a similar problem I was hoping for some guidance on. 89 S4 ROW. The oil gauge in the dash reads max full even when the car is off. This thread educates to check the oil pressure sender. Man that was an experience squeezing under there lol…
ive posted some pics. The main wire red sheath looks like it has some damage but doesn’t appear to be exposing the wires. The 3 wires going into the sensor were wrapped in electrical tape and look a little hairy…
I used a volt meter to see what if any power was coming and I got 9
0.047 volts. Not sure if I’m using it right… but online said to use one of those does this wire have power sticks so I’m assuming it would have picked it up?
anyhow, what should I do next? Remove the sendor and clean, cut the manky wires and thread in cleaner wire from the red sheathing?
Typical age related damage. Chances are you need to revamp the front of engine harness- undo the 14 pin connector next to the hot post and pull the engine side cover off to take a look at the cores in there and more importantly, just as they leave the connector. chances are the insulation will be falling off some of the cores and the colour will be indeterminate. Also take a look at the colour and condition of the 16mm2 cable entering the hot post- it will probably be brown and look somewhat shabby possibly with obvious cracks in the insulation- also take a look at the alternator end.
On the positive side Roger now does a replacement connector for that 3 core abomination. Whether or not your oil pressure sender is functional remains to be seen. Some of us have replaced that thing with the earlier 2 pin sender that uses simple spade terminals- much easier to work with.
09-04-2018, 01:11 PM
