Anyone want to build back my 928, or buy it in pieces?
10-25-2017, 10:36 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Anyone want to build back my 928, or buy it in pieces?
For various reasons, I've lost all interest in re-building my 1991 S4. I paid $20k for it in Spring 2014 when it had about 75k miles on it. I drove it locally through the summer, had some kind of sensor problem--folks here guessed a CPS--and decided to do an extensive refresh, which eventually included pulling the motor.
The engine bay is empty. Just about everything that remotely made sense to replace has a new part waiting, including all sensors, Greg Brown fuel hoses, fuel dampers and regulator, water pump, PK Tensioner, head gaskets, oil pan gasket, other seals and gaskets, cam tensioner pads, breather, radiator, and vacuum hoses, flapper bearing, throttle bearing, thermostat, engine mounts, radiator, main engine harness, upgraded injectors, new LH computer, strainer setup for fuel tank, window and other switches, GTS mirrors, new coils, distributer caps, those real OE plug wires (can't remember the name), a new starter, steering rack bushings, and more. I have boxes and boxes of new stuff.
I got most of my parts from Roger, some from Greg Brown. I also picked up the lift bars from Ken Lauridsen.
The motor is clean and still hanging on its new stand, also supported from below. It wasn't very dirty in the first place. I've never opened it, except I removed the oil pan and had a look at the thrust bearing, which had no signs of abnormal wear that I could discern. I have the flywheel lock tool. I also have a new crane that we used to remove the motor.
The previous owner added an SLC x-pipe and I installed matching CATS from SLC. I have new Koni shocks and Hypercoil springs. The previous owner had replaced the fuel filter, cam belt, and rear latch, as well as the tires, which are Bridgestone. The previous owner also had the AC system re-built to use the newer refrigerant (can't remember the name). I re-tensioned the cam belt that summer, installed the CATS and released the tension on the flex plate, which was not much.
I started taking out the Classic Gray interior carpet for replacement. The exterior is black and excellent. There is only a small amount of surface rust on the cross member under the engine. The car had no problems until the CPS (or some other sensor) went bad. The engine bay is very clean--no dead animals, clumps of leaves, dirt, etc. I agreed to pay $20k for it because it is in great shape.
The rear window has a small water leak near the top right corner that has resulted in the need for a replacement rear interior ceiling panel. It has become slightly warped. The car has been under cover the whole time, and in my garage for most of the time.
There are three possibilities, as I see it:
1) I pay someone to rebuild it and then sell it;
2) I sell it as is--parts and all--and let the buyer rebuild it, which I think would be cool if I had the time and someone interested in helping me.
3) I part it out--least likely because of the time involved.
I'm pretty sure I have over $30k spent on the car and parts to date. I don't expect that I'll recoup that, but I would like something reasonable for both parties. Otherwise, I will rent a storage area and move it out of my life until it is worth something to someone (me?) someday.
Thanks for reading,
Louis
The engine bay is empty. Just about everything that remotely made sense to replace has a new part waiting, including all sensors, Greg Brown fuel hoses, fuel dampers and regulator, water pump, PK Tensioner, head gaskets, oil pan gasket, other seals and gaskets, cam tensioner pads, breather, radiator, and vacuum hoses, flapper bearing, throttle bearing, thermostat, engine mounts, radiator, main engine harness, upgraded injectors, new LH computer, strainer setup for fuel tank, window and other switches, GTS mirrors, new coils, distributer caps, those real OE plug wires (can't remember the name), a new starter, steering rack bushings, and more. I have boxes and boxes of new stuff.
I got most of my parts from Roger, some from Greg Brown. I also picked up the lift bars from Ken Lauridsen.
The motor is clean and still hanging on its new stand, also supported from below. It wasn't very dirty in the first place. I've never opened it, except I removed the oil pan and had a look at the thrust bearing, which had no signs of abnormal wear that I could discern. I have the flywheel lock tool. I also have a new crane that we used to remove the motor.
The previous owner added an SLC x-pipe and I installed matching CATS from SLC. I have new Koni shocks and Hypercoil springs. The previous owner had replaced the fuel filter, cam belt, and rear latch, as well as the tires, which are Bridgestone. The previous owner also had the AC system re-built to use the newer refrigerant (can't remember the name). I re-tensioned the cam belt that summer, installed the CATS and released the tension on the flex plate, which was not much.
I started taking out the Classic Gray interior carpet for replacement. The exterior is black and excellent. There is only a small amount of surface rust on the cross member under the engine. The car had no problems until the CPS (or some other sensor) went bad. The engine bay is very clean--no dead animals, clumps of leaves, dirt, etc. I agreed to pay $20k for it because it is in great shape.
The rear window has a small water leak near the top right corner that has resulted in the need for a replacement rear interior ceiling panel. It has become slightly warped. The car has been under cover the whole time, and in my garage for most of the time.
There are three possibilities, as I see it:
1) I pay someone to rebuild it and then sell it;
2) I sell it as is--parts and all--and let the buyer rebuild it, which I think would be cool if I had the time and someone interested in helping me.
3) I part it out--least likely because of the time involved.
I'm pretty sure I have over $30k spent on the car and parts to date. I don't expect that I'll recoup that, but I would like something reasonable for both parties. Otherwise, I will rent a storage area and move it out of my life until it is worth something to someone (me?) someday.
Thanks for reading,
Louis
10-25-2017, 11:10 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
928 Tech Session
If you were in DFW I would suggest a Tech Session. That's where we gather a bunch of guys and help someone replace a part on our car. Usually for the bigger jobs the host will provide hamburgers or hot dogs for the group. I don't know how strong or how big the 928 owners are in NC, but you could consider that. Here in DFW we are a big group and between all of us there is almost nothing we haven't done. The combined knowledge of the group would knock out your car in two weekends. Just a thought.
10-25-2017, 11:58 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
You didn't mention finishing it up yourself and I hope that your reasons for not doing so are not health related or something equally challenging.
There is no reason to part this car out if it is in good condition. Doing so would be a sin and would be intensely time consuming and lengthy. Paying someone to put it back together isn't going to be cheap and I don't know of any 928 gurus closer to you than Northern Virginia.
I am not sure that I understand option 2 where you say you are not sure you have the time unless you envision selling the car and having the buyer put it back together with your help where the car sits now.
You will have to take a big financial hit if you sell it as it is now. Assuming it is an automatic, a buyer can find an intact black S4 relatively quickly. Others may disagree, and I hope they do, but I would find it difficult to go a significant amount higher than the low teens for your car.
If your problem is just inertia, you are far from the first to have this issue. This is a great community and a lot of guys are always willing to help. If one of the addicted is nearby, see if you can get some help as suggested above. Otherwise, it's like eating an elephant, you do it one bite at a time. Pick a small job you can kill an hour or two and just start there. A little progress can help tremendously in getting unstuck.
Good luck.
There is no reason to part this car out if it is in good condition. Doing so would be a sin and would be intensely time consuming and lengthy. Paying someone to put it back together isn't going to be cheap and I don't know of any 928 gurus closer to you than Northern Virginia.
I am not sure that I understand option 2 where you say you are not sure you have the time unless you envision selling the car and having the buyer put it back together with your help where the car sits now.
You will have to take a big financial hit if you sell it as it is now. Assuming it is an automatic, a buyer can find an intact black S4 relatively quickly. Others may disagree, and I hope they do, but I would find it difficult to go a significant amount higher than the low teens for your car.
If your problem is just inertia, you are far from the first to have this issue. This is a great community and a lot of guys are always willing to help. If one of the addicted is nearby, see if you can get some help as suggested above. Otherwise, it's like eating an elephant, you do it one bite at a time. Pick a small job you can kill an hour or two and just start there. A little progress can help tremendously in getting unstuck.
Good luck.
10-25-2017, 12:17 PM
#4
Drifting
Once you start doing those singular 1-hour jobs, next thing you"ll know is that it will become a daily habit, and before you know it, that HUGE job will be complete.
The hardest part is starting. Remember to keep the sessions to an hour and some change.
You too can do it!
10-25-2017, 12:20 PM
#5
Don’t do it.
10-25-2017, 12:27 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
If you are selling, please name a price - I am interested. I can get it flat bedded back to me in GA. I have a place for it next to my 76k red 90GT that is ready to be restored.
If you want me to restore it I am open to that. Have a couple of cars ahead of you, but I could squeeze you in.
Kevin
If you want me to restore it I am open to that. Have a couple of cars ahead of you, but I could squeeze you in.
Kevin
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10-25-2017, 01:05 PM
#8
This the best advice because that is how I got my cars back together.
Once you start doing those singular 1-hour jobs, next thing you"ll know is that it will become a daily habit, and before you know it, that HUGE job will be complete.
The hardest part is starting. Remember to keep the sessions to an hour and some change.
You too can do it!
Once you start doing those singular 1-hour jobs, next thing you"ll know is that it will become a daily habit, and before you know it, that HUGE job will be complete.
The hardest part is starting. Remember to keep the sessions to an hour and some change.
You too can do it!
This. ^^^^
I got sidetracked with health and work distractions and nearly dispaired. Bundling up for recent move forced me to reassemble, at least to make mine a roller.
Amazing how that restores confidence and inspiration. Glad to come down for a Saturday if that helps.
Also FYI, there is an outstanding mechanic in Raleigh named Ray Munsch (porschevert). May be worth keeping in mind if you opt to rebuild.
Good luck.
10-25-2017, 01:47 PM
#10
Drifting
10-25-2017, 02:34 PM
#11
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumption_trap
Sometimes, I am certain that I am heading down the same path as OP ......
Sometimes, I am certain that I am heading down the same path as OP ......
10-25-2017, 04:58 PM
#12
Rennlist
Basic Site Sponsor
Basic Site Sponsor
For various reasons, I've lost all interest in re-building my 1991 S4. I paid $20k for it in Spring 2014 when it had about 75k miles on it. I drove it locally through the summer, had some kind of sensor problem--folks here guessed a CPS--and decided to do an extensive refresh, which eventually included pulling the motor.
The engine bay is empty. Just about everything that remotely made sense to replace has a new part waiting, including all sensors, Greg Brown fuel hoses, fuel dampers and regulator, water pump, PK Tensioner, head gaskets, oil pan gasket, other seals and gaskets, cam tensioner pads, breather, radiator, and vacuum hoses, flapper bearing, throttle bearing, thermostat, engine mounts, radiator, main engine harness, upgraded injectors, new LH computer, strainer setup for fuel tank, window and other switches, GTS mirrors, new coils, distributer caps, those real OE plug wires (can't remember the name), a new starter, steering rack bushings, and more. I have boxes and boxes of new stuff.
I got most of my parts from Roger, some from Greg Brown. I also picked up the lift bars from Ken Lauridsen.
The motor is clean and still hanging on its new stand, also supported from below. It wasn't very dirty in the first place. I've never opened it, except I removed the oil pan and had a look at the thrust bearing, which had no signs of abnormal wear that I could discern. I have the flywheel lock tool. I also have a new crane that we used to remove the motor.
The previous owner added an SLC x-pipe and I installed matching CATS from SLC. I have new Koni shocks and Hypercoil springs. The previous owner had replaced the fuel filter, cam belt, and rear latch, as well as the tires, which are Bridgestone. The previous owner also had the AC system re-built to use the newer refrigerant (can't remember the name). I re-tensioned the cam belt that summer, installed the CATS and released the tension on the flex plate, which was not much.
I started taking out the Classic Gray interior carpet for replacement. The exterior is black and excellent. There is only a small amount of surface rust on the cross member under the engine. The car had no problems until the CPS (or some other sensor) went bad. The engine bay is very clean--no dead animals, clumps of leaves, dirt, etc. I agreed to pay $20k for it because it is in great shape.
The rear window has a small water leak near the top right corner that has resulted in the need for a replacement rear interior ceiling panel. It has become slightly warped. The car has been under cover the whole time, and in my garage for most of the time.
There are three possibilities, as I see it:
1) I pay someone to rebuild it and then sell it;
2) I sell it as is--parts and all--and let the buyer rebuild it, which I think would be cool if I had the time and someone interested in helping me.
3) I part it out--least likely because of the time involved.
I'm pretty sure I have over $30k spent on the car and parts to date. I don't expect that I'll recoup that, but I would like something reasonable for both parties. Otherwise, I will rent a storage area and move it out of my life until it is worth something to someone (me?) someday.
Thanks for reading,
Louis
The engine bay is empty. Just about everything that remotely made sense to replace has a new part waiting, including all sensors, Greg Brown fuel hoses, fuel dampers and regulator, water pump, PK Tensioner, head gaskets, oil pan gasket, other seals and gaskets, cam tensioner pads, breather, radiator, and vacuum hoses, flapper bearing, throttle bearing, thermostat, engine mounts, radiator, main engine harness, upgraded injectors, new LH computer, strainer setup for fuel tank, window and other switches, GTS mirrors, new coils, distributer caps, those real OE plug wires (can't remember the name), a new starter, steering rack bushings, and more. I have boxes and boxes of new stuff.
I got most of my parts from Roger, some from Greg Brown. I also picked up the lift bars from Ken Lauridsen.
The motor is clean and still hanging on its new stand, also supported from below. It wasn't very dirty in the first place. I've never opened it, except I removed the oil pan and had a look at the thrust bearing, which had no signs of abnormal wear that I could discern. I have the flywheel lock tool. I also have a new crane that we used to remove the motor.
The previous owner added an SLC x-pipe and I installed matching CATS from SLC. I have new Koni shocks and Hypercoil springs. The previous owner had replaced the fuel filter, cam belt, and rear latch, as well as the tires, which are Bridgestone. The previous owner also had the AC system re-built to use the newer refrigerant (can't remember the name). I re-tensioned the cam belt that summer, installed the CATS and released the tension on the flex plate, which was not much.
I started taking out the Classic Gray interior carpet for replacement. The exterior is black and excellent. There is only a small amount of surface rust on the cross member under the engine. The car had no problems until the CPS (or some other sensor) went bad. The engine bay is very clean--no dead animals, clumps of leaves, dirt, etc. I agreed to pay $20k for it because it is in great shape.
The rear window has a small water leak near the top right corner that has resulted in the need for a replacement rear interior ceiling panel. It has become slightly warped. The car has been under cover the whole time, and in my garage for most of the time.
There are three possibilities, as I see it:
1) I pay someone to rebuild it and then sell it;
2) I sell it as is--parts and all--and let the buyer rebuild it, which I think would be cool if I had the time and someone interested in helping me.
3) I part it out--least likely because of the time involved.
I'm pretty sure I have over $30k spent on the car and parts to date. I don't expect that I'll recoup that, but I would like something reasonable for both parties. Otherwise, I will rent a storage area and move it out of my life until it is worth something to someone (me?) someday.
Thanks for reading,
Louis
With the investment you've made in parts, dumping the car makes little sense, unless you are caught in a nasty cash flow problem. You are going to recover 30 cents on the dollar....maybe 50 cents if you get really lucky and find the right buyer.
.....Additionally, on the other side of the coin, excellent low mileage '90 and '91 S4 cars are skyrocketing in value. And "completely sorted", fresh cars are bringing the highest dollars.
Find someone....with a fantastic reputation....to put it back together (adds big dollars to the resale value.) Fix it once, fix it right, be done with it.
Put that thing on a transporter and send out here to the best 928 restoration center in the country. We do this kind of work on a daily basis and because of our expertise/experience, we can take a crate full of parts and put the car back together....perfectly and economically.
The engine is out and at some level of disassembly. Pull the heads, freshen them (valve job and do whatever necessary to make them flat without acid etching near the sealing surfaces.) Have the manifold and valve covers redone. Put it back together and install it, replacing all the worn pieces as you go.
We would sublet out the carpet job...because my upholstery shop is better at it than me and does a better job
If your description of the car is correct, you should end up with a car you can drive for another 100,000 miles, or sell at a premium.
10-25-2017, 05:36 PM
#13
Former Vendor
My 84 has been on lift bars for the past 6 years so I know exactly how the OP feels. The car is worth so much more money back together but seeing it just sit there is upsetting to say the least. As easy as it sounds to spend an hour here and an hour there and it will be all back together, it just doesn't work that way... life too often gets in the way. That and other running project cars that steal away your extra minimal free time. So for now it sits. And waits. And collects more dust.
GLWS. I hope you come to a satisfying decision.
GLWS. I hope you come to a satisfying decision.
Last edited by RennPartsDirect; 10-25-2017 at 06:38 PM.
10-25-2017, 05:48 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
What works for me is setting a deadline - usually Frenzy. My Shark will sit in pieces for weeks at a time with nary a wrench or screwdriver in sight, but I somehow manage to get it (mostly) back together in time for Frenzy. This year was no different, and I'll be surprised if I don't have major parts out of the car this coming Labor Day, too.
The other thing is to document my progress in a build thread here. I appreciate folks popping in to see where I'm at, and it motivates me to do something so I can post something (which is usually embarrassing).
The other thing is to document my progress in a build thread here. I appreciate folks popping in to see where I'm at, and it motivates me to do something so I can post something (which is usually embarrassing).
10-25-2017, 05:59 PM
#15
Pro
Thread Starter
Thank you for all of the replies everyone. There is a lot to think about here. And, thank you for your concern about my health. Fortunately, I am physically fine.
My intention when I started taking it apart was to refresh everything that remotely needed it, so that I would end up with a car I knew everything about--how old which parts were, etc.--and to replace everything I took out with the best available. Roger can attest to the OCD nature of my purchases. I was even going to send the transmission out to you Greg, even though I'm not sure it needs it.
I wanted a car that I could trust to drive 1,000 miles any time I wanted. Once I got everything mechanically sound--better than new, to my mind--I was going to have the interior restored by someone else. The most I was willing to do on the interior was rip it out. I have no patience for that kind of work.
As far as help goes, I have never had any doubt that I can put it all back together, and I am meticulous about doing such things. It's just that the people I thought might enjoy helping me aren't available or interested, and the project no longer seems fun. And, I don't have the time I need to just relax and enjoy rebuilding it.
Nothing personal to anyone else here, but I'm leaning toward sending it all out to Greg, after which I would probably keep it and use it to make some new friends. That was part of the original purchase decision anyway. I work out of my house and get nearly zero meaningful adult interaction these days. I've watched the Shark events go by year after year now.
Let me think about this some more. I'll contact you, Greg, about logistics if I go down that path. The car is really not that far from being a gem.
Thank you all,
Louis
My intention when I started taking it apart was to refresh everything that remotely needed it, so that I would end up with a car I knew everything about--how old which parts were, etc.--and to replace everything I took out with the best available. Roger can attest to the OCD nature of my purchases. I was even going to send the transmission out to you Greg, even though I'm not sure it needs it.
I wanted a car that I could trust to drive 1,000 miles any time I wanted. Once I got everything mechanically sound--better than new, to my mind--I was going to have the interior restored by someone else. The most I was willing to do on the interior was rip it out. I have no patience for that kind of work.
As far as help goes, I have never had any doubt that I can put it all back together, and I am meticulous about doing such things. It's just that the people I thought might enjoy helping me aren't available or interested, and the project no longer seems fun. And, I don't have the time I need to just relax and enjoy rebuilding it.
Nothing personal to anyone else here, but I'm leaning toward sending it all out to Greg, after which I would probably keep it and use it to make some new friends. That was part of the original purchase decision anyway. I work out of my house and get nearly zero meaningful adult interaction these days. I've watched the Shark events go by year after year now.
Let me think about this some more. I'll contact you, Greg, about logistics if I go down that path. The car is really not that far from being a gem.
Thank you all,
Louis