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Replacing tensioner pads, replace chains as well?

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Old 10-12-2017, 08:15 PM
  #61
monkez
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Originally Posted by FredR View Post
Your post a waste of time?- utter bollocks man!

This a great primer for those of us who are erstwhile DIY hacks and your attention to detail is exemplary. If your day job goes ***** up you also have a future as a photographer to boot.

Good to see you are going the whole hog as it were. I reckon you have dodged a bullet looking at the grooves in that top pad. Do show some pics as you refurb the pads.

I have a similar project in my sights at the moment. I have a set of S3 cams to modify and may well stick them in my S4 motor so happy to pick up any learning from your efforts.

Anything published on this list is for the benefit of everyone so no way are you copying anything untoward- anything but- you are contributing and then some!
Catching up on this thread, but I need to reiterate what FredR wrote. This thread (and threads like these) are so informative because it allows us to see what works and what doesn't. More over, this just shows me (and likely others) how little I really know about wrenching on a car.

If not for threads like these, I would have never been willing to even buy a 928, nor would I be anywhere near where I am in trying to get mine to run right.

These types of threads are humbling, but very educational. Thanks for sharing your process in all this.

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Old 10-13-2017, 09:45 AM
  #62
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^ Have to agree. keep going Seth, you're doing great man. Plus, I'm sort of into mine this deep as well and it's inspiring me.
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Old 10-13-2017, 03:03 PM
  #63
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Now if RL would allow everyone to post unlimited pictures for free, there would be a lot more threads like this.

Used to make them but when I decided not to renew my membership, my abilities to post pictures here were taken away. So I stopped posting technical write ups. If RL doesn't want content that boosts it's value for free then, I'm sure as hell not going to pay for it AND donate my time. It's one of the other. If I'm going to make the effort to take pics and do a write up then I expect the site not to charge me to post them.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:11 PM
  #64
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^ I see the site, not only as a invaluable resource which has helped to me to no end, but also a business. As a business it has costs, and for the minimal charge for membership I have no problem.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:47 PM
  #65
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Without a doubt...

REPLACE THE HEAD GASKETS NOW

And yes, that means rebuilding the heads, $750.

Unless you really like taking it all apart again, that's different.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:09 PM
  #66
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Alright guys, I'm doin' it.
Engine is coming out.
Heads will be refurbished. Properly.

I have been awake for 30 hours now. Time for bed.

I will respond to all your post replies tomorrow, and start a new thread for engine out.

G'night.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:21 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by skpyle View Post
Gentlemen, I appreciate the suggestion, and understand the logic. Head gaskets are a weak point on 928 engines. As is the inevitable corrosion of the head deck surface.
However, I am going to pass at this point. Pulling the engine to do the heads is opening an expensive Pandora's box that I don't want to deal with now.
Yes, I am likely shooting myself in the foot for later.

Pulling the engine will mean:
-head gaskets
-clean, weld, machine heads
-valve guides, valve job
-completely disassemble heads to clean oil passages
-dealing with possibly corroded head studs, might have to replace ALL of them
-cleaning the deck surface of the cylinder blocks
-REAR MAIN SEAL!!! Big scare here. I am reading that installing a rear main seal on a 928 has become a 50/50 crap shoot on whether it leaks. I don't have an engine test stand, and don't want to find out it leaks until AFTER I install the engine. I don't know what to do about the rear main seal at this time.
-purchasing a suitable engine stand
-TIME. I am already chomping at the bit to get the Red Witch back together and drive. It has been 15 months and still going. All of the above needs to be done in a timely, yet UNHURRIED manner. Which means a later time.

I am still in a hole to the tune of a few thousand dollars for what I am doing now. I would prefer to pay that off, then save up for the above work. Then do that work at a more appropriate time.

Thanks, though.


Ironic how I keep eating my words...
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:46 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by The Forgotten On View Post
The Elring RMS so far has proven to be the best one, same goes for their wheel bearing seals as they are copies of the original, better designed seal.

Also, if you ever replace the studs, you need to replace all of them. Porsche moved to a different alloy that will not yield like the originals and needs to be torqued to IIRC 66ft/lbs.

Angle torquing the new studs as per WSM torques them in excess of 100 ft/lbs. But his is a topic for another thread.

Either way, best of luck on your extensive top end refresh.
Thanks for the info on that, I appreciate it! That is half of it, though. I have to REALLY study up on the installation of the seal. I saw threads of failures that have me concerned.

As for the head studs, I will be referring extensively to this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ead-studs.html





Originally Posted by SeanR View Post
Seth, if you choose to pull the engine, which at this point i think you should for the head gaskets alone. I'll toss in the rear main and front main seal installer tools with the rest of them.

I swear, we are going to start calling you Dwayne the II with how detailed your threads are.
Sean, I will take you up on that offer! However, I will wait to rent the tools until I actually need them. That will be awhile.

Thanks for the vote of confidence!




Originally Posted by Imo000 View Post
That's an S4 isn't it?

The 85-86 32Vs have studs and that makes it almost impossible to remove the heads with the engine in the car. I said almost because with some unusual methods there is a way to pull them. Did it twice on mine but the service manual states to pull the engine.
Yep, I've seen where it can be done like that. I am going to go ahead and pull mine. Given this chance, I would prefer to reassemble everything on the engine stand.




Originally Posted by ltoolio View Post
I've been thinking the same thing, although dare I say it - I think Seth's pics are even more detailed than Dwayne's.
Thank you for the vote of confidence! However, I will say I am approaching Dwayne. Noone will surpass him.
I do this so others can benefit. I searched Rennlist before I did any work, to learn from the mistakes of others. Now, others can learn from my mistakes.




Originally Posted by SeanR View Post
Just think about how much you won't have to do in the future. Like for the next 20 years.
Sean, that is what pushed me over the tipping point.





Originally Posted by GregBBRD View Post
I wondered when the slippery slope would stop....or if it should. The head gaskets I've been seeing are absolutely terrible and if I was this far, I'd probably suggest to the client to take the heads off.

Some of the late '86.5 engines had head bolts and not studs. You might take a look, since if you have bolts, the heads can be removed with the engine in the car.

Head stud "issues" are one of the worst things we fight. It's a nightmare. I hope you have bolts.
Greg, this has been a wallet lightening slippery slope with no end since July of 2016. I just keep going deeper and deeper into the hole. I keep saying the mantra of WYAIT over and over to rationalize all this. But, at the same time, I am fixing, one by one, most of the known problems on driver 928's. I will bleed money for quite sometime, but it is what it is. I want the Red Witch to be reliable and powerful. Gotta spend money to do that...

Yeah, only things holding the engine in are the bellhousing bolts. Makes sense to go ahead and pull the engine and be done with it. I have understood from Rennlist that the head gaskets are a known fault, almost a consumable on a 928. Two camps: either you HAVE replaced the head gaskets, or you ARE going to replace the head gaskets. I had intended to do so in the future. However, like everything else I have said I will do later, I am doing now.

No. Mine has studs. I am hoping for the best. I have your 'head stud' thread bookmarked for rereading several times.
Let the nightmare begin.




The Red Witch definitely has head studs.







Originally Posted by Adamant1971 View Post
Back to the topic. Yes I would do the chains and pull the heads. And while your that far just pull the engine.

And glad to see my old tools getting good use.

Keep it up Seth.
Thanks Adam, I am doing the chains, and am no longer in denial. I am pulling the engine to do the heads.

Yep, your tools already have been a BIG help. Thanks!





Originally Posted by baystate928 View Post
Yup, that is an S4. I can imagine removing the heads with studs would be more of a challenge.

My apologies to you Seth for opening this can of worms. I went through the same issue with my "top end refresh." It hurt a bit when the cost was double my planned budget but I achieved a comfortable numbness when it passed by 3X.
No problem, we're good.
Yeah, I understand comfortably numb. I am $26,000 into this and it keeps on rolling. The rum is nice, though...





Originally Posted by FredR View Post
Seth,

When I was preparing my current steed I used the motor from my late 90 S4. /That was 15 years old at the time and of course I had the engine out of the wrecked chassis. I had a couple of bent valves on No7 inlet so that head had to be removed. Nonetheless I pulled both heads and did the crank seals and was well pleased with the peace of mind it gave.

I found a little bit of corrosion on the wall of the water jacket that we sealed up but other than that it was perfect. Given where you are at and the prowess you have shown to date, I reckon you could have the engine out and heads off in less than a day. Do the head gaskets and chances are they will be fine for another 20 plus years. The other point is that if you do have anything festering away it will be quite apparent and probably cost a lot less to deal with now rather than when something gives.

Your pics suggest you have studs so the engine has to come out. Given you are now entering the winter season [doubtless mild where you are?] it must be worth considering doing this given the propensity of these things to fall apart.

Your call of course- you have been most wise in your approach to date. I dare say you can hire an engine crane and stand for a few bucks.

Chance favours the prepared mind!
Thanks, FredR! Yep, I have a beast of an old engine hoist. I have ordered an appropriate geared head engine stand. No turning back now...

Now that I am not in denial anymore, I have decided to go all in and do it right.
I am shooting for debut of SITM 2018.





Originally Posted by monkez View Post
Catching up on this thread, but I need to reiterate what FredR wrote. This thread (and threads like these) are so informative because it allows us to see what works and what doesn't. More over, this just shows me (and likely others) how little I really know about wrenching on a car.

If not for threads like these, I would have never been willing to even buy a 928, nor would I be anywhere near where I am in trying to get mine to run right.

These types of threads are humbling, but very educational. Thanks for sharing your process in all this.

monkez, Thank You! That is my point! If I can give confidence to at least one person, or can clear up a confusing issue to someone, then it is all worth it to me. I want other people to understand that you don't have to have buckets of money to work on a 928. It DOES take alot of money, but it is doable by a home mechanic. If you do your homework, you can do anything!




Originally Posted by DeWolf View Post
^ Have to agree. keep going Seth, you're doing great man. Plus, I'm sort of into mine this deep as well and it's inspiring me.
Hey, you're doing pretty damned well yourself.
Thanks for the vote of confidence!





Originally Posted by SwayBar View Post
Without a doubt...

REPLACE THE HEAD GASKETS NOW

And yes, that means rebuilding the heads, $750.

Unless you really like taking it all apart again, that's different.
Yeah...its not going to get any better. I had hoped to wait sometime and do them at a supposed better time. Who knows if I would have had that time.
I am no longer in denial, and it is all coming out, and going to get done right.
Thanks!



Thanks guys, I appreciate the support and advice!
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:47 AM
  #69
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So, I am moving all further discussion to my new thread about pulling the engine and refurbishing the heads:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...l#post14536556
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:02 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by DeWolf View Post
^ I see the site, not only as a invaluable resource which has helped to me to no end, but also a business. As a business it has costs, and for the minimal charge for membership I have no problem.
RL makes it's money on advertising. I can't remember any other car site that charges membership to post pictures. This was a leftover from when hosting images was expensive and this isn't the case anymore.
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Imo000 View Post
RL makes it's money on advertising. I can't remember any other car site that charges membership to post pictures. This was a leftover from when hosting images was expensive and this isn't the case anymore.

This is true. And, if I remember correctly, there is a cap on how many photos you can post in a membership lifetime. A few who have been here forever have run into that cap.
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