Green powder on wires
11-09-2003, 01:25 AM
#1
4th Gear
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Green powder on wires
I have a '77 924 and I'm having some strange electrical problems. In the process of tracking down the problem I'm finding that virtually all wiring is coated with green powder. Has anyone else seen this phenominon? I've owned older cars before but never seen wiring turn green. Is this something unique to Porsche/Audi/Volkswagon cars?
Also, does anyone have any tips on how to keep my rear taillights from filling with water?
I'm going to spend this winter fixing the electrical system and hopefully adding some mods to the engine. Any speed tips would be appreciated. I'm sick of losing to Dodge Omnis.
Can I change my engine with TBI (toilet bowl injection) for something more modern?
Thanks,
Laserturbo
P.S. Can you tell I'm a little frustrated with my Porsche? I thought this would be a sports car I could impress my dates with and all its done is embarrass me.
Also, does anyone have any tips on how to keep my rear taillights from filling with water?
I'm going to spend this winter fixing the electrical system and hopefully adding some mods to the engine. Any speed tips would be appreciated. I'm sick of losing to Dodge Omnis.
Can I change my engine with TBI (toilet bowl injection) for something more modern?Thanks,
Laserturbo
P.S. Can you tell I'm a little frustrated with my Porsche? I thought this would be a sports car I could impress my dates with and all its done is embarrass me.
11-09-2003, 10:21 AM
#2
Three Wheelin'
Welcome to Rennlist Laser! I am not that famailer with the early 924, but is the green powder some sort of corrosion? I have seen plenty of times Ca++(white) build up on batteries, I'm sure someone else might have some ideas on that...
On your tail-light questions, if they are cracked in some way id say buy a new one. New from PerformanceProducts they are $95, which means you can find them somewhere else new for like $50
Or of course used. I'm not sure if you can fix these lights. But im sure if you popped it off your car you could tell if you could just seal it up.
I would also check out 924.org as they seem to be all about the early 924's...Goodluck!
Erich Schmidt
On your tail-light questions, if they are cracked in some way id say buy a new one. New from PerformanceProducts they are $95, which means you can find them somewhere else new for like $50
Or of course used. I'm not sure if you can fix these lights. But im sure if you popped it off your car you could tell if you could just seal it up.I would also check out 924.org as they seem to be all about the early 924's...Goodluck!
Erich Schmidt
11-09-2003, 11:40 PM
#3
The green powder is called vertigre and it happens to anything copper or brass. It is oxidation basically. It has likely crept through your wiring under the insulation and may cause higher than normal resistance and bad connectivity. I used to see in on hacked wiring jobs on boats.
11-10-2003, 11:37 AM
#4
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yes, come over to the dark side, 924.org.
I have successfully rebuilt the engine wiring harness on 924's, like my racecar, and found it well worth the effort if done properly. Old wires corrode, the insulation gets brittle and cracks, etc.
If you want to go faster - well, check out the FAQ on 924.org. Then read the Tech Section. You'd basically be talking about a cam and a header. Leave the injection as is, it's not your problem. Beyond cam/header, you'd have to build a motor, which is probably not what you need to worry about right now.
Taillights - the lenses are sealed into the body of the light with some black ropy goo sealant. I have heard that NAPA sells something similar, you can take them apart and reseal the offending lenses.
I have successfully rebuilt the engine wiring harness on 924's, like my racecar, and found it well worth the effort if done properly. Old wires corrode, the insulation gets brittle and cracks, etc.
If you want to go faster - well, check out the FAQ on 924.org. Then read the Tech Section. You'd basically be talking about a cam and a header. Leave the injection as is, it's not your problem. Beyond cam/header, you'd have to build a motor, which is probably not what you need to worry about right now.
Taillights - the lenses are sealed into the body of the light with some black ropy goo sealant. I have heard that NAPA sells something similar, you can take them apart and reseal the offending lenses.
11-10-2003, 12:36 PM
#5
Nerd Herder
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
"Verdi Gris" and oxidation of copper causing a green tinge. Think Statue of Liberty... replace those wires asap- dont let them arc to the hood.. \
"Lake Tail Light" is a unwanted destination we all gather at- welcome to the party. when you pull the lens out you will see the "black goo"- be careful on removal the plastic gets brittle.
Bosch injection is what your'e stuck with. Increase in HP is minimal at a large expense. "Kill them in the corners"- that was the primary purpose of a sports car- handling.
Welcome to Rennlist!
"Lake Tail Light" is a unwanted destination we all gather at- welcome to the party. when you pull the lens out you will see the "black goo"- be careful on removal the plastic gets brittle.
Bosch injection is what your'e stuck with. Increase in HP is minimal at a large expense. "Kill them in the corners"- that was the primary purpose of a sports car- handling.
Welcome to Rennlist!
11-16-2003, 03:05 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
The Verdi Gris oxide does signal a problem.
Here is the problem: Porsche used crummy automotive bare copper wiring and then crimped on bare copper terminals that are not soldered or sealed. So you are going to see oxidation/attack especially in the engine bay. This is not the end of the world on the wire itself if it hasn't cut down the cross section too much. But make sure the insulation jacket isn't cracked because this would be a short just waiting to happen which may start the car on fire.
The other big problem is going to be the interface between the terminal and the wire. The corrosion will just walk up the wire and resistance goes through the roof and there goes voltage and ability to deliver adequate current.
What to do? It is really hard to get solder to hang onto corroded surfaces so just trying to solder the existing terminals to the wire is probably not going to work. You could get some high quality tinned terminals, cut off the old terminals, clean up the wire core, then crimp, solder and seal the new terminals on.
Or just get new wiring which is probably the way to go if you can afford it. Old wires like the positive battery cables are going to have insulation problems from age and heat cycling and since they are not fused that is a disaster waiting to happen. And with a 1977 car, you have OLD wiring.
Oh, and where are you located? If the insulation isn't cracked it is unusual to see green all over the wires. If you are in a lot of salt (northern states or by the sea) or a toxic chemical enviroment I guess you could see that, but it is sort of unusual to cover all the insulation far away from the terminal.
Here is the problem: Porsche used crummy automotive bare copper wiring and then crimped on bare copper terminals that are not soldered or sealed. So you are going to see oxidation/attack especially in the engine bay. This is not the end of the world on the wire itself if it hasn't cut down the cross section too much. But make sure the insulation jacket isn't cracked because this would be a short just waiting to happen which may start the car on fire.
The other big problem is going to be the interface between the terminal and the wire. The corrosion will just walk up the wire and resistance goes through the roof and there goes voltage and ability to deliver adequate current.
What to do? It is really hard to get solder to hang onto corroded surfaces so just trying to solder the existing terminals to the wire is probably not going to work. You could get some high quality tinned terminals, cut off the old terminals, clean up the wire core, then crimp, solder and seal the new terminals on.
Or just get new wiring which is probably the way to go if you can afford it. Old wires like the positive battery cables are going to have insulation problems from age and heat cycling and since they are not fused that is a disaster waiting to happen. And with a 1977 car, you have OLD wiring.
Oh, and where are you located? If the insulation isn't cracked it is unusual to see green all over the wires. If you are in a lot of salt (northern states or by the sea) or a toxic chemical enviroment I guess you could see that, but it is sort of unusual to cover all the insulation far away from the terminal.
Last edited by IceShark; 11-16-2003 at 03:21 PM.
