1989 951 vs BMW M3
06-12-2017, 07:34 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Also without a lot of thought it's easy to make a 951 smoke any n/a BMW.
06-12-2017, 09:40 AM
#17
The M3 looks like a shoebox with wheels. The 951 is more aero. May not be a big deal in the US but places where you can spend some time on the other half of the speedometer it's got to make a difference.
06-12-2017, 01:31 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Yup, I don't get it either. In spec racing, mods limited, 8V 944NA vs a non M E30, the 944 will kill the E30 so it seems the 951 would own the M3.
I argued with a SPEC E30 racer that swore he was gonna blast my son's 944 at NOLA and he was 5 seconds off pace. He couldn't understand it.
Hype.
T
I argued with a SPEC E30 racer that swore he was gonna blast my son's 944 at NOLA and he was 5 seconds off pace. He couldn't understand it.
Hype.
T
SP1
NJMP Lightning 1:22.266
NJMP Thunderbolt 1:36.549
Spec E30
NJMP Lightning 1:17.868
NJMP Thunderbolt 1:35.034
06-12-2017, 03:50 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
The BMW is more valuable because of its racing heritage. We had a thread about this not too long ago. The BMW absolutely dominated in its era in touring car where the 951 did nothing. Plus it sounds way better than that turbo'd lump.
I'd take an E30 M3 any day over a 951.
I'd take an E30 M3 any day over a 951.
I think the E30 is almost all hype. BMW makes family cars so when they once in a while come up with a car that is sporty it will stir the pot and all BMW fans will shout about it. Especially on behalf of it's sucess in DTM in which it raced other modified family saloon cars.
Porsche (atleast in the day) manufactured solely sportscars and the 951 is "just another" sportscar from Porsche so as such not a very "hyped" up car. Yes the E30 is a cool car and looks really good and it will with alot of mods go really well. However with the same level of preparation it wont hold a candle to the 951.
The E30 will always comand higher prices than a 951 since it is one of very few really special BMW cars.
The 951 is just another Porsche amongst a long line of very special cars from Porsche and will on behalf of that always be outshined by one or another from the Porsche lineup.
I would however very much like to own a E30 M3 to go for blasts on the street and to look at.
When I want to go really fast I will take the 951
And yes I agree the BMW 4 banger sounds alot better than the Porsche
Engine.
Just my thoughts
/Peder
06-12-2017, 07:25 PM
#21
Race Car
The Spec E30 must not have been well driven. An 8V 944NA spec car (SP1) is no match for a Spec E30. I don't know NOLA, but for example at NJMP, the track records are (according to PCA Club Racing and Spec E30)
SP1
NJMP Lightning 1:22.266
NJMP Thunderbolt 1:36.549
Spec E30
NJMP Lightning 1:17.868
NJMP Thunderbolt 1:35.034
SP1
NJMP Lightning 1:22.266
NJMP Thunderbolt 1:36.549
Spec E30
NJMP Lightning 1:17.868
NJMP Thunderbolt 1:35.034
Never been to NJMP. all I can speak for is the tracks we visit.
First off, I said "in Spec racing", SP2 is still Spec, my son's car is identical to an SP1 car in every manor except it has a rear coilover but I could still look up SP1 cars if you'd prefer,
Circuit of the Americas (heard of that one..?)
Spec E30 record- 2.43.459
944 SP1 - 2.42.721
944SP2 - 2.40.868 (my son's best - 2.42.407)
Texas World Speedway (been there since 1969, surely you've heard of it....?)
Spec E30 record - 2.07.051
944 SP1 - 2.00.648
944SP2 - 2.00.646 (my son's track record)
NOLA Motorsports Park (you know, as in New Orleans, site of The Battle of New Orleans where the southern US troops defeated the British without losing a single man)
Spec E30 record - 2.02.753
944 SP1 - 2.02.352
944SP2 - 1.59.715 (my son's track record)
Hallet Motor Speedway
Spec E30 record - 1.31.838
944 SP1 - 1.29.474
944SP2 - 1.28.470 (my son's track record)
NOLA 1.8 short
Spec E30 record - 1.30.045
SP2 944 (racing NASA PTD) - 1.24.889 (my son's track record)
No SPEC E30 times for Eagles Canyon of No Problem Raceway (Circuit Grande Bayou) or I'd post two more track records.
Maybe the 944s at NJMP aren't being driven competitively....?
I'd put up Chris Blazer in an SP1 or my son in his SP2 against ANY E30 at ANY track at ANY time.
C'mon down to the Big Easy (NOLA), I'll see if I can get my son or one of his track buddies to ride instructor with you. Bring that championship E30 with you.
T
Last edited by 951and944S; 06-12-2017 at 07:54 PM.
06-12-2017, 09:00 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Yes I've heard of all those tracks. I said I don't know them because I've never driven them personally. That area doesn't have any serious Spec E30 talent so it doesn't surprise me that they don't have the records over a 944. The real talent is on the two coasts, mostly in the SE and MidAtl, and a few ******* in CA (lol).
I don't think it's fair to compare SP2 to Spec E30. They usually are chipped where 944 Spec and Spec E30 are totally stock engines. Any serious suspension mod makes them incomparable too. I think they can run Hoosiers too.
The only time an SP1 would have an advantage is on a tight twisty course because the handling is a bit better.
I would love to come race in TX area, but it's too far and too freaking hot. When do you race? In February? COTA is the only track that would interest me.
I don't think it's fair to compare SP2 to Spec E30. They usually are chipped where 944 Spec and Spec E30 are totally stock engines. Any serious suspension mod makes them incomparable too. I think they can run Hoosiers too.
The only time an SP1 would have an advantage is on a tight twisty course because the handling is a bit better.
I would love to come race in TX area, but it's too far and too freaking hot. When do you race? In February? COTA is the only track that would interest me.
06-12-2017, 10:32 PM
#26
Race Car
Yes I've heard of all those tracks. I said I don't know them because I've never driven them personally. That area doesn't have any serious Spec E30 talent so it doesn't surprise me that they don't have the records over a 944. The real talent is on the two coasts, mostly in the SE and MidAtl, and a few ******* in CA (lol).
I don't think it's fair to compare SP2 to Spec E30. They usually are chipped where 944 Spec and Spec E30 are totally stock engines. Any serious suspension mod makes them incomparable too. I think they can run Hoosiers too.
The only time an SP1 would have an advantage is on a tight twisty course because the handling is a bit better.
I would love to come race in TX area, but it's too far and too freaking hot. When do you race? In February? COTA is the only track that would interest me.
I don't think it's fair to compare SP2 to Spec E30. They usually are chipped where 944 Spec and Spec E30 are totally stock engines. Any serious suspension mod makes them incomparable too. I think they can run Hoosiers too.
The only time an SP1 would have an advantage is on a tight twisty course because the handling is a bit better.
I would love to come race in TX area, but it's too far and too freaking hot. When do you race? In February? COTA is the only track that would interest me.
There are allowances in the rules for chips, header, etc. but I run the stock factory header on all 944s.
Louisiana in September is nice and cool, that's PCA event.
Season generally starts and ends down south, y'all cars are still snowed in...
To quote former LSU pitcher and MLB great, Ben McDonald,
"in the summer in Louisiana, you get the 3 90s. 90 degrees, 90% humidity and 90% chance of rain."
T
06-13-2017, 12:13 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
2 things guys the el Camino thing Porsche sold a shooting brake 944 years before the BMW guys used a crashed m3 to convert into a parts runner and second the E30 M3 is the winningest car of its era period
as the experiance of owning both and privilege the m3 feels/sounds like race car
as the experiance of owning both and privilege the m3 feels/sounds like race car
06-13-2017, 08:27 AM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
944 sport car, raced lemans, e30 family saloon, one in every second shed. Apples and oranges.
While e30 m3 is nice car, its never worth for what they are sold nowdays.
While e30 m3 is nice car, its never worth for what they are sold nowdays.
06-13-2017, 09:01 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Bought an E30 M3, hated the shifter, hated the steering, engine was meh, could not understand all the hype and sold it in 2 months. As others have suggested, lots of hype. You will be underwhelmed if you came out of a 951 and then drove an m3 back to back.
Super expensive parts. Engine rebuild costs $10k, for a 4 cylinder@&!! Wow. I would never consider one again.
Super expensive parts. Engine rebuild costs $10k, for a 4 cylinder@&!! Wow. I would never consider one again.
06-13-2017, 11:25 AM
#30
Race Car
Bought an E30 M3, hated the shifter, hated the steering, engine was meh, could not understand all the hype and sold it in 2 months. As others have suggested, lots of hype. You will be underwhelmed if you came out of a 951 and then drove an m3 back to back.
Super expensive parts. Engine rebuild costs $10k, for a 4 cylinder@&!! Wow. I would never consider one again.
Super expensive parts. Engine rebuild costs $10k, for a 4 cylinder@&!! Wow. I would never consider one again.
Looks like this time I'm in the majority...., must be getting old...
Bought my daughter a 330i 5 speed, M Tech body and sport option years ago.
"Plastic Porsche". That's how I answer my wife when she comes out to the shop when she hears me cursing and asks me "what's wrong..?" when I'm working on it.
T