NS_Carguy

HI
So as the title says , I am considering buying a 944 , or rather I would like to buy a fun car to drive in the summers on weekends and maybe take it for a tour round the province on vacation . Basically a fun weekend touring car. The 944 is one of the cars that appears to be in my budget and is readily available in my area , and that I like the looks of . The other cars I am looking at are C4 corvettes .
I hadn't considered the 944s until just recently when i notices a bunch of them on Kijiji I saw one that looked good ( 86 in white ) for $3K , and i thought that is a pretty car , I wonder what is wrong with it at $3K . then I saw a few more and there are currently 6 of then between $2500 and $6K . Which is just about where I want to be for a budget , under $5k .

So I did my research on corvettes and I think i know what to look for in them , now if I am going to throw the 944 in as an option I need to do my research on what to look for , be aware of and what to watch out for .

My first thought with a Porsche was the parts will be murder , and no one will know how to fix them in my area ( I live 2 hours away from the closest Porsche dealer ) . The 2nd part is less of a problem if there is good forum support to help owners doing their own work on their cars , the first part regarding parts cost might be an issue .
- How expensive are parts for these cars , and how hard are the parts to get ?
- Is there good forum support for DIY guys ? either on this forum or on another ?

- What are the known problems with 944 that every owner should be prepared for ? water pumps and wiring problems seem to be mentioned often in the few threads I have read .

- What are deal killers , things that are red flags that when i see them in a potential purchase are signs to walk away as the car is basically done or beyond reasonable repair ?

_ Rust ? are there problem areas with rust on these cars ? I live in rust central so it is always a concern . I would assume most of these cars have had a pampered existence for at-least the first half of their life , and likely not winter driven ever ( most seem to have reasonable millage on them ) . But even with that there are often trouble spots on every model and make of car what are the areas to check for a 944 ?

- Known mechanical issues that i should be keeping an eye open for . and are there issues that are problems for cretin years/ models but not other years ?

- turbo vs non turbo , personally i could care less about a turbo and given the option would rather not have one as I am not racing the car and figure it is just something extra that can go wrong . I also assume that people that buy a turbo, buy one because they want to race or push their cars to the limit, which means increased wear and tear on the car which means more problems for me as the next owner .
Having said all that if a turbo is priced right is it worth looking at or am i right in assuming that the turbo is its own set of problems best avoided if one can ?

- how hard are these cars to maintain ? they are German built so i assume a fairly high build quality . but they are 30 year old cars and even the best engendering breaks down eventually . are the 944s maintenance nightmares or are they still reliable ?

- how hard are they to work on for a DIY guy ? do i need a bunch of specialty equipment ?

- parts availability , do napa and other part suppliers like cdn tire carquest ect stock parts for them ?
are there parts from other cars that will fit them and is there a list that is available out there some where . It said in one thread that some VW parts were compatible.

anything else I am missing or should be aware of before looking seriously at a 944 ?

thanks

V2Rocket

In general most parts are reasonably priced along the lines of any other car.
Only a few things do you really have to bite the bullet when you buy it (engine mounts for example).
Some parts are a little more expensive simply due to the lower production volume of the 944 versus other brands but in general they are not pricey.

NAPA/Carquest/etc will carry some applicable parts, it's worth at least checking with them if you do need something as their supply chains are quite impressive, they are good for hard parts like suspension and axles and switches. I would avoid any electronic devices of theirs, though (but there aren't many to go wrong on a 944).

This (Rennlist) is the best 944 forum in the world, I am a member on several others and the content and helpfulness found here makes all the others pale in comparison. There's almost no need to even sign up anywhere else unless you like reading and have time to kill

Make sure the timing belt, balance shaft belt, and all the rollers/pulleys are changed every 30,000 miles (45,000 km for you maple-syrup types). This is MANDATORY. Typically people will change the water pump every other belt job (60,000miles/90,000km) for peace of mind. The best pricing for water pumps is ZIMS AUTOTECHNIK in Texas for one of their excellent-quality remanufactured pumps. ZIMS also has very good pricing for the belt kits.

Rust is generally not a problem - 944s were all dip-galvanized at the factory and tend to hold up very well even in rust-prone (road-salt) places...but treat it like you would any other car (rinse off the undercarriage if you drive it in winter) and you should be good.

In general the cars are fairly easy to work on, you only need a few "specialized tools" for the belt job and some suspension work. At this point in time simply due to age the cars may have had any range of owners and levels of care - again, treat it like any other car. If the body and interior are in good shape, the car will generally have been taken care of. Engine and drivetrain parts are easier to fix if needed (it's easier to turn wrenches than stitch leather or paint a car ... )

You can have plenty of fun with a non-turbo model. Most of us do.

Jason @ Paragon Products

Parts are readily and easily available...ask me how I know :-)

Get the best car you can afford. Fixer Uppers tend to cost more in the long run. I'd look for a relatively stock car that hasn't been "engineered" upon over the years. The NA cars will be less expensive to maintain than the Turbo cars. Clutch jobs are a bear so it would be great if the car you purchase has already had that done. www.clarks-garage.com is a great source of information for 944 owners so I'd bookmark that. As V2Rocket mentions, the belts & rollers are something you definitely want to stay on top of. If you don't have any records that it's been done, I would do that first before driving the car.

NS_Carguy

thanks that is exactly the kind of info i was looking for

SloMo228

- How expensive are parts for these cars , and how hard are the parts to get ?

They're not as cheap as, say, a Chevy, but for the most part, prices are somewhat reasonable. Common wear items like brakes, wheel bearings, etc. are basically the same price as any other car, but you'll pay a lot more for things like clutches and water pumps. All in all, expect to pay probably 50% more for parts than you would be paying for a "standard" car.

- Is there good forum support for DIY guys ? either on this forum or on another ?

Yep, you're already here. Lots of people here DIY the work on their 944s and there's a ton of knowledge here. Clark's Garage is another good resource for how-to information.

- What are the known problems with 944 that every owner should be prepared for ? water pumps and wiring problems seem to be mentioned often in the few threads I have read .

The water pump isn't really a "problem," per se, but yes, keeping up on timing belt maintenance intervals (which includes the water pump) is important to ensure your valves aren't introduced to your pistons. Wiring problems aren't exactly uncommon (these are rather old cars now and many of them have had a number of previous owners who have done God-knows-what to the wiring), but I wouldn't really say it's a "known issue" with 944s, at least not the later 85.5+ models. Not any worse than other cars of this vintage, anyway. I've actually found the late 944s to be fairly sensible in terms of the wiring harness.

The interiors will be some degree of ruined on many 944s unless they've been restored or have been garaged their entire lives. Cracked dashboards, torn seats, worn and stained carpets are very common on these cars. The seats are fairly easy to re-cover, carpets can be cleaned or replaced, and there are still options to re-cover the dashboard as well.

If the car still has its original clutch, odds are it won't last much longer. The OE clutches are rubber-centered and it's almost guaranteed at this point that that rubber center is coming apart.

- What are deal killers , things that are red flags that when i see them in a potential purchase are signs to walk away as the car is basically done or beyond reasonable repair ?

There aren't really any, at least not specific to the 944. These cars are pretty simple (the non-turbo ones at least) and almost all of them can be brought back from the brink. It's just a question of how cheaply you can buy it to make the cost of repairs worthwhile. That said, unless you want a project, look for a car that has maintenance records - these cars are very reliable when well-maintained, but don't appreciate being neglected. Recent clutch replacement, waterpump + belts replacement are good things to have on record.

Obviously things like severe rust, collision damage, broken engine, etc. are deal-killers, but that goes for all cars.


_ Rust ? are there problem areas with rust on these cars ? I live in rust central so it is always a concern . I would assume most of these cars have had a pampered existence for at-least the first half of their life , and likely not winter driven ever ( most seem to have reasonable millage on them ) . But even with that there are often trouble spots on every model and make of car what are the areas to check for a 944 ?

Many of these cars had a pampered existence, but a lot have been rode hard and put away wet for the last couple of decades. They're actually very rust-resistant thanks to being fully galvanized, but when rust does occur, there are some common spots. The battery tray is probably the most common - corrosion from the battery will accelerate rust there and then water will be able to leak into the passenger compartment. You'll definitely want to check underneath the battery for evidence of rust or a prior repair. In front of the rear wheel wells is another common spot - debris kicked up from the tires chips away the paint and galvanization and opens the door to rust. Rocker panels are another spot to check, as is the area around the hatch latches.

- Known mechanical issues that i should be keeping an eye open for . and are there issues that are problems for cretin years/ models but not other years ?

As mentioned before, keeping the timing and balance belts fresh is important for long-term enjoyment of a 944, and the original clutches are no longer a reliable item. There are oiling issues with the rod bearings that can be a problem, especially if the car is driven hard, but it's not like every 944 has a failed #2 bearing.

- turbo vs non turbo , personally i could care less about a turbo and given the option would rather not have one as I am not racing the car and figure it is just something extra that can go wrong . I also assume that people that buy a turbo, buy one because they want to race or push their cars to the limit, which means increased wear and tear on the car which means more problems for me as the next owner .
Having said all that if a turbo is priced right is it worth looking at or am i right in assuming that the turbo is its own set of problems best avoided if one can ?

The Turbo is the king of the heap for 944s, value-wise. The values of all 944s are finally starting to rise, but the Turbos will benefit the most from that appreciation. They are, of course, faster than the N/A cars, and they also have better brakes. The downside is the additional complication of the turbo system and the additional maintenance that goes with that. I'd personally recommend an S2 as they have a good deal more power than the 8V N/A cars and the nicer Turbo brakes without the extra headache of the turbo.


- how hard are these cars to maintain ? they are German built so i assume a fairly high build quality . but they are 30 year old cars and even the best engendering breaks down eventually . are the 944s maintenance nightmares or are they still reliable ?

Not hard, but you have to keep on top of it. 944s reward preventative maintenance with great reliability for a car of its vintage, and similarly punish a lax maintenance schedule.

- how hard are they to work on for a DIY guy ? do i need a bunch of specialty equipment ?

Not hard at all, IMO. I've never worked on a Turbo, but the N/A variants have fairly good access and it's just generally a pretty simple car. If you're mechanically inclined, you can do basically all the repairs you'd need done yourself. I do all my own work and the only thing I'd consider farming out is a full rebuild of the transaxle or machine work on the engine.

- parts availability , do napa and other part suppliers like cdn tire carquest ect stock parts for them ?
are there parts from other cars that will fit them and is there a list that is available out there some where . It said in one thread that some VW parts were compatible.

Not so much, unfortunately. If you need parts, you're likely going to have to order them online and wait a few days. That said, availability is still quite good. There are a few NLA parts, but basically everything you'd need to keep the car running is still widely available. There are a number of online suppliers to choose from, as well.

There are some VW/Audi parts in the 944, but not really all that much of an interchange AFAIK. The biggest area where you can swap VW parts in is probably the suspension, but even then it's fairly limited, especially for the late model 944s.


My recommendation is to get a car that has been maintained, above all else. Don't worry about mileage, these cars don't really care about that.

divil

Well, the Turbo definitely does have more potential things to go wrong. And for that budget, you are probably better off with the NA. But just so you know, the extra power does not mean the car will necessarily have more wear and tear. The Turbos are built stronger. Porsche don't just take an existing car and bolt on a turbocharger. Here's a picture of all the parts that are different on the Turbo:





This is the truth.

jhowell371

Read this : http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...yers_guide.htm

marc abrams

A Vette and a 944 are two different types of cars. The 944 is more of a nimble drivers car. The Vette is faster, but more ruff and tumble, hard riding. The brakes suck too (at lease the ones I drove). I had a C3 Vette. Sold it, got the 944, and never looked back. Not saying that the Vette is a bad car, just wasn't my cup of tea. If you are thinking about both a Vette and 944, you may want to take time to think about the type of car you want a little harder and make the best choice for yourself.

NS_Carguy

so of the 3 cars I am considering at the moment 1 is an 86 automatic . the other 2 are standards . I am aware of the issues around the clutch in the standard models , are there similar issues i need to be aware of with automatics . the listing says 138k kms or about 90k miles , how long do the automatics last for , and if there are problems are they fixable by a DIY guy or is it a dealership visit ? also is there much in the way of DIY advice/ support for the automatics ? there seems to be a ton of DIY support and tutorials for standards . all things being equal i would prefer a standard , but this auto is white , and these cars look good in white.

the other question would be parts cost and availability for an automatic , I have been looking at parts for standards and found them to be pricy but not outrageous , and there are lots of places that carry them , mostly online / ebay but whole clutch kits were readily available .

marc abrams

I would say is durability and life expectancy is on par with other 3 speeds of the same era. Other than the ring and pinion and any of the hard parts (used) and a master overhaul kit are pretty cheap. A 12 year old can rebuild a 3 speed automatic. They are pretty simple automatics.

951Dreams

There are two big things to keep a look out for on the auto. The front damper, and the rear "converter mount". Both WILL go bad, and cost about 2k to fix.

BUT you can replace the front one with a clutch and pressure plate from a standard. You just remove the forks and throw out bearing and it acts like a manual with the clutch always engaged. You don't even need a new clutch, since as long as it's not slipping now it won't, since it will never wear once installed. Saves about $1200. Those two parts are the main thing to worry about on an auto....

But if your looking at vetts, I'd wager you'll be disappointed with the auto. They really are gutless off​ the line. You just floor it and wait. And wait..... I know, I have an auto. Once moving they are kinda fun.

I also have a 951 (turbo 944). They are night and day different cars. They just kinda look alike. As far as turbos go, I'd wager to say the 944 is one of the best and most reliable. (Unless abused) Mine has never been touched in 30 years. Other stuff done, but the turbo is still solid (knock on wood). Even the guys I know with turbo diesels are always having problems with them. They are more complicated, and fill the engine bay up, but I wouldn't venture to say they are terrible. I'd bet there are many more people here with perfectly working turbos than people with problems. You just hear from those having issues more. Plus, honestly, I'd also bet a good chunk of the turbos in general have been better taken care of. Just stay away from highly modified ones if reliability is more important than power. That's where they start getting issues. Operating beyond design parameters. But there are also lots of guys on here running mods with lots of success... So meh.... They are good cars!

I too looked into vetts, my history is with Trans Am's, and I do love C3 vetts. But bang for the buck the 944 wins. I've owned more 350s then you can shake a stick at and I wanted something different. I wanted handling and better MPG. I wanted something rarer, and I wanted creature comforts. I'll be honest and say my 3rd gen Trans Am with the GTA suspension I put on it was a beast in the corners. When I autocrossed, only highly modified C4 vetts compared, and it was still a good toss up. There weren't any C5s to compare with then, so I can't say on later vetts. But I can say my 951 is a step or two above the Trans Am, even with the best suspension GM ever put in one. So I can say it's also better than a C4 handling wise. My 87 auto, stock, is on par with my TA. So I'd say better then a stock base C4 by some margin as well.

I'm over my drag racing days, I want handling, feedback, comfort, and good performance at speed. For those a solid 944 with everything working right suspension wise just can't be beat for the money. (I'm ignoring you Miata, your​ ugly and not as cool as my 944s) If you want off the line, the Vett is for you. Course some stock 951s got 5.5 0-60 times back in the day, and that will beat many vetts for many years....so....

It's up to what moves you. I LOVE these cars. I get stopped at every gas station, and every supermarket cause someone wants to talk to me about it. So others love them as well. Even if they open with "Is that a 928?" LOL.

And you can't beat this community!!!! There is nothing like it. Like you, I came here first and started reading and talking. I soon got to the point that it was no longer if I'd buy one, only when. I now have two

Mister Quickie

The 944 or 951 will never be a 911, it just won't . Neither will the Corvette.
I've had both a 951 and an NA, nothing close to the driving experience of a 996.
The Corvette is too heavy to enjoy, it's inherent.
The 944 IMO is just not a good car, I bought one for $5 and it ran up to $25 within a couple years and that's not uncommon.
If you can possibly buy a 911 in the mid to high teens, save up and do so.
If budget is a concern, get a motorcycle. There is no car at 150mph that will provide the enjoyment of a bike at 50mph, it's inherent.

Jason @ Paragon Products

Mister Quickie

just being honest, people have no idea how much 944 ownership can add up

V2Rocket

based on your recent posting history i think you were the one who underestimated everything.

did you ever figure out that waterproof cloth hood?