2.3L Ford Ecoboost Conversion
10-09-2016, 01:33 PM
#16
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Completely didn't see this part of the message (I guess it blended in with the signature). Yeah, I'd love to do this too. Those $$$ tho....
10-09-2016, 05:03 PM
#17
Today I got
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Mazdaspeed 3 and 6 have almost the same motor as the new stang, I believe the block might even be the same. Both the mazda mzr and ford ecoboost 2.3ls are duratec family motors, Just a thought, you can get the speed 2.3t for much less money, only challenge is they are oriented for fwd and awd platforms from factory. Not sure how much a difference that makes in a swap. I'm driving a mazdaspeed 3 right now while my 944 is under the knife, and oh man this powerplant in a fofo would be epic.
10-09-2016, 10:42 PM
#19
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Hrm, interesting idea. Do those engines work well as swaps? I imagine there is a ton of canbus style data used to support them. The cost associated with maintenance on anything BMW is a little discouraging.
10-13-2016, 01:18 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
10-19-2016, 07:07 PM
#21
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I'm now also considering the LTG motor from GM. It looks like a nice package and comes in the 2014+ Malibu.
@Brad, correct, the HP pump is flywheel side on the passenger side of the motor.
@Brad, correct, the HP pump is flywheel side on the passenger side of the motor.
05-12-2017, 12:03 AM
#23
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LS has been done way way way too much if anyone says they do it for the challenge Im going say your not being truthful.
Ecoboost would be a challenge and anyone really interested would take that challenge. I have an 85 944 and Im looking into that 2.3 ecoboost in my Porsche. If a Mustang can run a 12.5 in the QRT mile then imagine what it could do in a 944? And I know that 2.3 is lighter then an LS. You can buy a universal wiring kit for those from Ford. Junk yard engine is about 2500 to 3500. Adapting the trans to the engine is like any other swap. I am interested in how far you have got on this project.
Ecoboost would be a challenge and anyone really interested would take that challenge. I have an 85 944 and Im looking into that 2.3 ecoboost in my Porsche. If a Mustang can run a 12.5 in the QRT mile then imagine what it could do in a 944? And I know that 2.3 is lighter then an LS. You can buy a universal wiring kit for those from Ford. Junk yard engine is about 2500 to 3500. Adapting the trans to the engine is like any other swap. I am interested in how far you have got on this project.
05-12-2017, 12:46 AM
#24
Intermediate
Thread Starter
LS has been done way way way too much if anyone says they do it for the challenge Im going say your not being truthful.
Ecoboost would be a challenge and anyone really interested would take that challenge. I have an 85 944 and Im looking into that 2.3 ecoboost in my Porsche. If a Mustang can run a 12.5 in the QRT mile then imagine what it could do in a 944? And I know that 2.3 is lighter then an LS. You can buy a universal wiring kit for those from Ford. Junk yard engine is about 2500 to 3500. Adapting the trans to the engine is like any other swap. I am interested in how far you have got on this project.
Ecoboost would be a challenge and anyone really interested would take that challenge. I have an 85 944 and Im looking into that 2.3 ecoboost in my Porsche. If a Mustang can run a 12.5 in the QRT mile then imagine what it could do in a 944? And I know that 2.3 is lighter then an LS. You can buy a universal wiring kit for those from Ford. Junk yard engine is about 2500 to 3500. Adapting the trans to the engine is like any other swap. I am interested in how far you have got on this project.
05-13-2017, 02:11 PM
#26
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Here's essentially the message I sent, but now for everyone's benefit.
Here's a VERY short recap of where I'm at on the swap;
TL;DR: It's a full drive line swap with what will likely be a Miata from 06 and newer. Do a Honda or Toyota engine instead, cheaper and can go the same distance for less money.
Pick up a boneyard engine if you can. No sense in spending the money on the engine new if you can avoid it. If you HAVE to buy a new engine, there's one you can find online for about $5500, from a disreputable place. Call summit racing, have them pricematch, and get the control kit from them as well. There's also an EcoBoost Swaps group on Facebook. If you go on there, you can source the engine and kit from one of the guys and get it cheaper through them if you want.
Unless you modify the firewall heavily, the engine won't fit and be usable with the factory torque tube and transmission. I talked to several places, and essentially they all said the same thing; the torque tube shaft is at its mechanical limit for length - any longer, and you risk failure of the shaft under power and rpm. The reason this is a problem is largely due to the placement of the High Pressure Fuel Pump at the top right rear of the head. It soaks up about 3 necessary inches of space you would otherwise use to move the engine back and mate with the torque tube et al.
To solve this, I'm currently in the process of swapping to a Mazda MX-5 Miata 6-speed trans, which bolts up to the 2.3L without need for adapter. I will need to widen the torque tube tunnel about 2.125 inches on each side to give me the requisite space to fit the transmission. I'm intending to do this with a large sledge hammer at first, then once I know it's good, I can go back and do it right with cutting/welding.
From there, I'm going to use either a Miata IRS rear center section OR and 2015+ Mustang IRS center section, and use a traditional drive shaft/open drive line. I have not yet figured out the solution for adapting half-shafts to the center-section of the differential.
I'm planning to build a special cage for the differential that takes advantage of the rigidity of the torsion tube and the body mounts for the 944's transaxle to replace the stiffness lost by removing the torque tube.
This swap will probably require a custom front cross-member in order to accommodate the pan. This is primarily caused by how the power steering unit mounts with those two C clamps. I'm considering getting a Ford Ranger pickup truck pan, since it's a direct swap, in order to move the sump of the pan as far back as possible. I also plan on removing the crankshaft counterbalance in order to use the Ranger pan if I do indeed go that route.
I've CONSIDERED tilting the engine about 7-10 degrees toward the passenger side of the vehicle, but don't have a good sense of what that would do to the physics of everything. Again, it's currently just a consideration to allow for more space under and above the engine, but I'm not sure the net result is actually a positive. Also changes the angle of the shifter.... .... .... :-/
I also swapped to the 2.0L intake manifold (Focus ST manifold). There's a few sensors and things you have to swap as well, but the lion's share is a direct conversion.
Also plan on getting rid of your power brake booster. The intake is in the way.
If anyone has questions, hit me up.
I think if I were to start over from scratch today, I'd look at a Toyota or Honda 4 cylinder and plan on boosting it. Live and learn.
Next project is going to be a 2.3L ecoboost MIDENGINE and cut out the back seat, using a Focus RS transmission. I can turn 75% of the hood space into a storage compartment, and still have room for all the necessary accessories/essentials like radiator, power brakes, power steering, coolant recovery, etc. Plan on walling off the back area from the engine and the passenger compartment. Should be dope.
Here's a VERY short recap of where I'm at on the swap;
TL;DR: It's a full drive line swap with what will likely be a Miata from 06 and newer. Do a Honda or Toyota engine instead, cheaper and can go the same distance for less money.
Pick up a boneyard engine if you can. No sense in spending the money on the engine new if you can avoid it. If you HAVE to buy a new engine, there's one you can find online for about $5500, from a disreputable place. Call summit racing, have them pricematch, and get the control kit from them as well. There's also an EcoBoost Swaps group on Facebook. If you go on there, you can source the engine and kit from one of the guys and get it cheaper through them if you want.
Unless you modify the firewall heavily, the engine won't fit and be usable with the factory torque tube and transmission. I talked to several places, and essentially they all said the same thing; the torque tube shaft is at its mechanical limit for length - any longer, and you risk failure of the shaft under power and rpm. The reason this is a problem is largely due to the placement of the High Pressure Fuel Pump at the top right rear of the head. It soaks up about 3 necessary inches of space you would otherwise use to move the engine back and mate with the torque tube et al.
To solve this, I'm currently in the process of swapping to a Mazda MX-5 Miata 6-speed trans, which bolts up to the 2.3L without need for adapter. I will need to widen the torque tube tunnel about 2.125 inches on each side to give me the requisite space to fit the transmission. I'm intending to do this with a large sledge hammer at first, then once I know it's good, I can go back and do it right with cutting/welding.
From there, I'm going to use either a Miata IRS rear center section OR and 2015+ Mustang IRS center section, and use a traditional drive shaft/open drive line. I have not yet figured out the solution for adapting half-shafts to the center-section of the differential.
I'm planning to build a special cage for the differential that takes advantage of the rigidity of the torsion tube and the body mounts for the 944's transaxle to replace the stiffness lost by removing the torque tube.
This swap will probably require a custom front cross-member in order to accommodate the pan. This is primarily caused by how the power steering unit mounts with those two C clamps. I'm considering getting a Ford Ranger pickup truck pan, since it's a direct swap, in order to move the sump of the pan as far back as possible. I also plan on removing the crankshaft counterbalance in order to use the Ranger pan if I do indeed go that route.
I've CONSIDERED tilting the engine about 7-10 degrees toward the passenger side of the vehicle, but don't have a good sense of what that would do to the physics of everything. Again, it's currently just a consideration to allow for more space under and above the engine, but I'm not sure the net result is actually a positive. Also changes the angle of the shifter.... .... .... :-/
I also swapped to the 2.0L intake manifold (Focus ST manifold). There's a few sensors and things you have to swap as well, but the lion's share is a direct conversion.
Also plan on getting rid of your power brake booster. The intake is in the way.
If anyone has questions, hit me up.
I think if I were to start over from scratch today, I'd look at a Toyota or Honda 4 cylinder and plan on boosting it. Live and learn.
Next project is going to be a 2.3L ecoboost MIDENGINE and cut out the back seat, using a Focus RS transmission. I can turn 75% of the hood space into a storage compartment, and still have room for all the necessary accessories/essentials like radiator, power brakes, power steering, coolant recovery, etc. Plan on walling off the back area from the engine and the passenger compartment. Should be dope.
05-13-2017, 03:02 PM
#27
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Who told you that about the driveshaft length?
The 968 uses an even LONGER shaft (albeit two parts) because of it's deeper bellhousing.
And the stock shaft has proven to be up to the task of carrying 500-700hp over the years in heavy-breathing 944 turbos and V8 swapped monsters.
If you haven't gone too far already, you might contact Constantine at Black Sea R&D who makes new production, upgraded 944 drive shafts, he might even be able to make you a longer one.
Alternatively...you might be able to just move the whole 944 driveline forward (relocate the transmission mount) since the CV axles have quite a large operational angle range.
The 968 uses an even LONGER shaft (albeit two parts) because of it's deeper bellhousing.
And the stock shaft has proven to be up to the task of carrying 500-700hp over the years in heavy-breathing 944 turbos and V8 swapped monsters.
If you haven't gone too far already, you might contact Constantine at Black Sea R&D who makes new production, upgraded 944 drive shafts, he might even be able to make you a longer one.
Alternatively...you might be able to just move the whole 944 driveline forward (relocate the transmission mount) since the CV axles have quite a large operational angle range.
05-13-2017, 09:17 PM
#28
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Who told you that about the driveshaft length?
The 968 uses an even LONGER shaft (albeit two parts) because of it's deeper bellhousing.
And the stock shaft has proven to be up to the task of carrying 500-700hp over the years in heavy-breathing 944 turbos and V8 swapped monsters.
If you haven't gone too far already, you might contact Constantine at Black Sea R&D who makes new production, upgraded 944 drive shafts, he might even be able to make you a longer one.
The 968 uses an even LONGER shaft (albeit two parts) because of it's deeper bellhousing.
And the stock shaft has proven to be up to the task of carrying 500-700hp over the years in heavy-breathing 944 turbos and V8 swapped monsters.
If you haven't gone too far already, you might contact Constantine at Black Sea R&D who makes new production, upgraded 944 drive shafts, he might even be able to make you a longer one.
I emailed Black Sea separately and that was the reply I got.
05-13-2017, 10:12 PM
#29
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Interesting...
There have been a few folks who have extended the driveshaft for different swaps (like Ford modular engine) that seem to be fine...
Like I said previously though - you might even be able to just shift the whole torque tube/trans assy forward a few inches.
There have been a few folks who have extended the driveshaft for different swaps (like Ford modular engine) that seem to be fine...
Like I said previously though - you might even be able to just shift the whole torque tube/trans assy forward a few inches.
05-14-2017, 12:29 AM
#30
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I'll definitely investigate a little more. This swap is moving at a snails pace since my daughter was born a few months ago. This thing's gonna take 2 years... HAH!