Paulyy

Unfortunately i don't have an early 944 to go and look at.

What's the differences in the suspension between the 2? for example the whole rear rear setup. Is it the same? are the parts the same with the steel arms?
Front same question, are the steel rear trailing arms the same as a 944?

I know on the turbo it's all new and aluminium ect.
I tried searching but didn't come up with much.

Thanks

924srr27l

The 924 and Early 944 have the same front Wishbone length & Geometry
The 924 2.0 and 924S 2.5 use Steel front wishbones
The early 944's use the same length Aluminium wishbones, and the 85.5 onwards (Oval Dash) use longer ones

I think the early 944's had the same 924 Steel rear trailing arms?, then aluminium ones same as the early and later 944's

What are you thinking of doing / changing?


R

Paulyy

I have a 924 track car project. Trying to gather enough info about the suspension to know what needs to be swapped to what.
Basically needs a 5 stud conversion and big brakes + remove the rear drum brake.

Also looking at what i can make myself instead of buying a few things.

The whole suspension and brake setup is going to be a pain (will be doing it last) but trying to plan ahead.

and i don't really want to be pulling apart my 944 turbo to measure parts for differences

924srr27l

Ok, So a 2.0? 924

Then best just buy 2nd hand breaker parts from a 924S / Early 944

Get the two front struts / Hubs and stub assemblies and Aluminium wishbones, also a thicker ARB, and I'd get a Full rear beam / torsion bar / Trailing arm / hubs and discs set up, both will then be 5 stud and rear Discs

This lot shouldn;t be too pricey, then strip it all fit new bearings and hard Poly bushes for Track use only and some Paint...Job done

Like these from UK Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-94...4AAOSwayZXjfXI


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-94...0AAOSwdIFXyptm

R

V2Rocket

924 has steel rear arms like early 944. The rear suspension should be nearly identical to the 944 with the exception (depending on model year of 924) of the transaxle hanger "arms". Some 924 didn't come with rear sway bars.

The front arms are like the early 944 but the 924 uses a different sway bar mounting - the 924 sway bar is mounted to the frame rail and there are "drop links" down to the A-arm. On the early 944 the sway bar hangs down low like the late 944 and has "horseshoe" shaped bushings directly on the arms.

Even a standard 944NA brake/suspension setup front/rear on a 924 will be a good upgrade since the 924 is a good bit lighter.

pfarah7

I'm not sure if this will help but... Here's some pics of my 84 with new front control arms/ball joints and untouched rear suspension.

Paulyy

Spencer,
To small mate! I want at least brakes the same size as my turbo or larger.

Phafah7,
Thanks for the photos. Saves me digging around on the net.

V2Rocket

Pauly, don't know if you've ever driven a 944NA but the brakes are definitely "not lacking".

They are serious put-you-through-the-windscreen brakes, even with stock rotors and pads, if you have a halfway decent tire fitted.

Not to discourage you but...they are very good brakes, and they came standard on the 924T.

924srr27l

Yeah but this is all dependant on how hard you can and do drive?

For shopping and pressing on they work very well, but for hard semi Racing on streets and braking from 100mph several times they are not built for or up to it ..

Yes, harder pad compounds are available to erradicate a standard pads tendancy to fade when subjected to numerous high stops..as also are cross drilled and grooved discs for cooling and gas / pad sweeping


Before my 924s went 2.7, or was lightened I cooked a set of pads and discs quite easily, and literally had to pump the pedal and not go as fast into corners and hence not brake as hard as I wanted to, just to stop overheating them..

So when I was going in a direction of a Lindsey Engine, and the 500Lbs weight loss they would of actually been far better with less mass to stop, however like the rest of the car I wanted everything upgraded and very powerful brakes.

The difference is Massive, the middle pedal now does not need to be stamped on or pushed with no where near as much vigour, a lighter touch (with more feel) is all that's required, it brakes effortless and with much less dramatics.

I've driven a few 911's with big stoppers and they are also a similar scenerio,

If you drove my car you'd also want a 20 piston system, and would for sure describe the stock set up as adequate.

Good braking is about harnessing the mass as gentle as possible, so the car's balance is not upset, car's that are over servo-ed do jolt and push you towards the windscreen, powerful brakes can be modulated with less pedal effort, less servo and are more controllable.

They also do so much less work, they do not overheat or fade as much as weaker systems.

If you compared a stock system to mine on track it would be a million miles away, and yes Tyre profile and width (Contact patch) can and does play it's part.

I'm "Juggling" 200+bhp and this immense braking system on 55 series profile and 7" Width rims & 205mm width tyres! (all round), there is no wheelspin though thanks to equal weight on the rear axle as the front, the wavetrac LSD Michelin Pilot tyres, and my traction control (Right foot!)

I would for sure have even more stability and braking retardation if I fitted
8 & 9 x18" Wheels and 235 / 255mm tyres but I prefer the lighter least resistant better handling set up and not the "all show and no go" look..

R

morghen

There are people racing 2L 924s with the original drums at the back with great performance and without fade.
Using the right pads and shoes makes a world of difference.

For such a light car you dont need bigger brakes, unless you dont know how to race.


However, if you want the 5lug setup, you dont have to take anything off the car.
The front and rear suspension arms are identical between 924 and early 944. Unless you have a 924 that came without the rear sway bars...but those are super rare.

There are 4 screws at the back that hold the spindle to the suspension arms, so all you have to do is get the 5lug spindles with disks and calipers and bolt them on to the suspension arms on your 924, you dont even have to take the arms off the car for that. I did that 13 years ago...i even used the original bolts that were on the 924.

The front is the same deal, unbolt the 4lug spindle, bolt on the 5 lug one, take the car for an alignment.

If you have a 924 that was produced after 1981 you are set, but if its a 79 you need the brake master cyl from a late 924 or a 944 to properly make use of thoese bigger calipers.

Paulyy

Thanks!
I'll probably be running a peddle box so i'll work out how big the master cylinder needs to be when i get the brakes.
But i'll be going with the whole new brake setup + 5stud.

I understand the small brakes are good. But this car is going to be built to go fast - fast laps. not H2H racing. And we have 1 track that is absolute punishment on brakes so I do not want to be lacking anywhere.

924srr27l

Yes, but some are in Racing classes where they can't change the stock set up,

The description "Great Performance" is different from one person to the next and all based on what people have driven and experienced.

Why did Porsche put 4 pot Brembo's on each corner when they made the Turbo & 3.0 S2 if the 944 2.5N/A or the 924 2.0 Brakes were good enough?

Why do we have Ceramic brakes on Supercars now, what's wrong with the iron ones?

Because in both these examples the changes provide better performance (fact)


As paulyy says he wants and needs a very strong brake set up, and I sense he knows that better pads with stock calipers will not "cut the Mustard"

I also sensed stock brakes on my 924 would not be good enough for my application, and having spent a lot of money on brakes when I was racing with great success (because "I do know how to Race) I shaved off 3/4 of a second per lap when I upgraded the brakes) which put me on the Podium compared to outside the top 10 previously...

So I decided to go for Lightweight Wilwood's on my Road Racer 924 and the experience and performance they provided now makes me even more confident it was the correct thing to do as I would describe these as providing a "Great Performance" but in comparison to describing a stock set up I would not.


R

morghen

Great performance as in keeping up with modern racers of their class to be more precise.
Heavier and faster car needs bigger brakes.
If you plan on having a fast car, yes you need big brakes and the stock ones wont work as you want.
I did not think you're aiming for a supercar killer...i was thinking you're going to run the stock 2L motor to be honest.
Looking forward to see what power will this car put on the ground.

But like i said, arms are identical, you can use them...but if you're going to run the car rally hard you might want to box the front arms. Look for how to do that on 924board.org

V2Rocket

The only folks who seem to run pedal boxes are you Aussies...
Does the upsidedown gravity keep you all under 5'8" or so?

(172cm for you non Commonwealth types)

Paulyy

Makes it easier for a hydraulic clutch conversion.

P.s you mean for the ROW as you guys are the only one who still use that nonsense.
PPs. Au is commonwealth.