Did I find something rare? 951
09-25-2016, 05:46 PM
#16
you have a special car indeed.
The c78 code designates an emissions pkg. for the country or state imported into.
ED0 is a pkg containing a group of options pkg, used by Porsche for marketing and sales bundling. It may have an alarm or a security delete, maybe a rear seat delete, console delete, rear window wiper delete, or undercoat/rust prevention deletes ? Do you know ? It may also include a larger than normal torsion bar add, bigger sway bar adds along with the Sport Shocks and springs.
My guess is since it's a factory delete or 'smooth top' and hardly any in the 951 came from the factory except made to order competition cars or team track set-up or tire test cars, and this may be one of those. It could also be an ex-PCA Instructors car such as the one sunroof delete/ delete special I own, which came from Porsche with a big rear wing, no sound deadener, deleted sunroof, gas cap lock, console, cigarette lighter. The plastic hood, fenders, bumpers and front valance were added and two more sets of wheels came with the grouping and sold with a 'bill of sale' only arrangement with a knowing buyer and a dealer in the 'know' who had it going on with Porsche's competition department. Little is known of these cars if they later got spun back into the consumer community after race series which supported them dissolved and teams sold off cars to wholesalers or 'club' hobbyists. I know of one early Clubsport 951 in Colorado, very bent and war torn which also later became a regular street driven sportscar wearing plates. It happened much more frequently back in the day than now.
If you have the money laying around and want a unique car, buy it. The story you may uncover later may well be worth the risk; personally I wouldn't hesitate. There are virtually NO 951s in America which originally came that way into the continent, especially with Sport seats, LSD, and sport suspension. I recommend buying it and getting the rest of the story later; it could be really good, even if a monumental effort to uncover it.
Is it originally a white car with possibly manhole cover FUCHS, in 8 and 9 inch widths ? This would REALLY be the 'tell'.
The c78 code designates an emissions pkg. for the country or state imported into.
ED0 is a pkg containing a group of options pkg, used by Porsche for marketing and sales bundling. It may have an alarm or a security delete, maybe a rear seat delete, console delete, rear window wiper delete, or undercoat/rust prevention deletes ? Do you know ? It may also include a larger than normal torsion bar add, bigger sway bar adds along with the Sport Shocks and springs.
My guess is since it's a factory delete or 'smooth top' and hardly any in the 951 came from the factory except made to order competition cars or team track set-up or tire test cars, and this may be one of those. It could also be an ex-PCA Instructors car such as the one sunroof delete/ delete special I own, which came from Porsche with a big rear wing, no sound deadener, deleted sunroof, gas cap lock, console, cigarette lighter. The plastic hood, fenders, bumpers and front valance were added and two more sets of wheels came with the grouping and sold with a 'bill of sale' only arrangement with a knowing buyer and a dealer in the 'know' who had it going on with Porsche's competition department. Little is known of these cars if they later got spun back into the consumer community after race series which supported them dissolved and teams sold off cars to wholesalers or 'club' hobbyists. I know of one early Clubsport 951 in Colorado, very bent and war torn which also later became a regular street driven sportscar wearing plates. It happened much more frequently back in the day than now.
If you have the money laying around and want a unique car, buy it. The story you may uncover later may well be worth the risk; personally I wouldn't hesitate. There are virtually NO 951s in America which originally came that way into the continent, especially with Sport seats, LSD, and sport suspension. I recommend buying it and getting the rest of the story later; it could be really good, even if a monumental effort to uncover it.
Is it originally a white car with possibly manhole cover FUCHS, in 8 and 9 inch widths ? This would REALLY be the 'tell'.
09-25-2016, 05:55 PM
#17
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I found the ad and the pictures look darn nice! That bra needs to go though. Make sure to check under it for damage.
Unless it's hiding some sort of serious problem, $12K doesn't seem outrageous.
I won't tell you to jump on it quick that's your business, but if it were me and I liked the car, I wouldn't drag my feet. I did that once and regretted it ever since.
Unless it's hiding some sort of serious problem, $12K doesn't seem outrageous.
I won't tell you to jump on it quick that's your business, but if it were me and I liked the car, I wouldn't drag my feet. I did that once and regretted it ever since.
09-26-2016, 02:49 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Clubsport cars had an option to have a factory installed MATTER cage built in and undoubtedly larger diameter torsion bars as well as anti-sway bars. They were never meant to be street driven cars so would be sold with a Bill of Sale and not DOT certifiable. Not to say they didn't get titles and licenses later.
They would be fitted with possibly lightweight glass, Perspex rear glass and side windows, have lightweight interior fabrics and carpet, have stereo delete as well. Be fitted with Weissach prepped components and be set up at Weissach before delivery. The engine would be hand fettled to include matched and possibly lightened components within.
They would be fitted with possibly lightweight glass, Perspex rear glass and side windows, have lightweight interior fabrics and carpet, have stereo delete as well. Be fitted with Weissach prepped components and be set up at Weissach before delivery. The engine would be hand fettled to include matched and possibly lightened components within.
09-26-2016, 08:59 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
In addition to the Matter cage, M637-optioned cars were fitted with:
- 30 mm front sway
- 21 mm 3-way rear sway
- 25.5 mm torsions
- Koni or Bilstein [depending on series, US or Canada] double adjustable dampers with threaded perches
- stiffer bushings [control arms, caster blocks, motor mounts, gearbox mount, torsion carrier]
- and probably a couple dozen deleted items
09-26-2016, 05:20 PM
#20
Why would they make both the M637 clubsports and the ED0 cars? They seem awfully similar, at least objectively.. Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that the M637s were essentially "Cup" variants for the other models such as the S and S2 but were created more or less for a respective series such as IMSA Firehawk etc. Does that make the ED0 cars essentially a 951 Lightweight that's originally made to be some sort of blank canvas to be used in whatever manner or racing series the owners wished? I find it really interesting the ED0 cars (at least the one the OP is looking at) come with some of the road car options such as M474 yet they come with the lightweight bodywork etc and weren't necessarily street legal from the get go..
Last edited by DasSilberWedge; 09-26-2016 at 05:36 PM.
09-26-2016, 10:34 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Connor, perhaps the answer lies in customer desires and spec outs.
A different car for different sports apps or different tastes in 'sport'. Different track application or a mix of track and street type driving. Perhaps even a car more suited for certain types of mountain roads vs. smooth curving 'flatlander' or no elevation drives.
I know of some M456 cars with sport shox and sport springs and heavier sway bars fitted with LSD and minimal interior fitments. The upgrade would have been the next leap up the ladder with 'special option' groups such as H series, EDO, I series groups. These cars could have been fitted with as little or as much in the way of sporting intent, including rear parcel shelf/rear seat delete. No car had to leave the factory exactly the same as the other IF the buyer wanted it HIS way and Porsche was happy to make it and sell it that way.
I also know of an M404 car that was built with a number of deletes including the sunroof. It also got a number of additions including LSD and plastic fenders, hood, and Perspex windows. This is on a car with only marginally upgraded suspension additions over the standard or BASE 944. This is the way the original owner wanted it. More softly sprung for the type of track it was going to run......
The same holds true today with Porsche's special wish department and how one may choose their GT3 991.2 or GT4 Cayman. There are a multitude of arrangements one may choose on their new Spyder Boxster or their Boxster S. Different wheel size apps , combined with different suspension settings produce an entirely different handling car. Throw in PASM or the addition or deletion of sport setting pkgs. and one again has a totally different car.
A different car for different sports apps or different tastes in 'sport'. Different track application or a mix of track and street type driving. Perhaps even a car more suited for certain types of mountain roads vs. smooth curving 'flatlander' or no elevation drives.
I know of some M456 cars with sport shox and sport springs and heavier sway bars fitted with LSD and minimal interior fitments. The upgrade would have been the next leap up the ladder with 'special option' groups such as H series, EDO, I series groups. These cars could have been fitted with as little or as much in the way of sporting intent, including rear parcel shelf/rear seat delete. No car had to leave the factory exactly the same as the other IF the buyer wanted it HIS way and Porsche was happy to make it and sell it that way.
I also know of an M404 car that was built with a number of deletes including the sunroof. It also got a number of additions including LSD and plastic fenders, hood, and Perspex windows. This is on a car with only marginally upgraded suspension additions over the standard or BASE 944. This is the way the original owner wanted it. More softly sprung for the type of track it was going to run......
The same holds true today with Porsche's special wish department and how one may choose their GT3 991.2 or GT4 Cayman. There are a multitude of arrangements one may choose on their new Spyder Boxster or their Boxster S. Different wheel size apps , combined with different suspension settings produce an entirely different handling car. Throw in PASM or the addition or deletion of sport setting pkgs. and one again has a totally different car.
09-27-2016, 02:29 AM
#22
Intermediate
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Black mirrors?
Interesting that the side mirror in the photo is black, rather than body colored.
And although I love my sunroof (especially w/ Saratoga top), I would have preferred a sunroof delete 944 S2...they're just exceedingly rare. 944s seem to be similar to BMW E36 M3s in that sense--slicktops are rare and sell quickly, often at a premium, compared to sunroof-equipped cars.
Short version: Agree w/ others. Buy it
And although I love my sunroof (especially w/ Saratoga top), I would have preferred a sunroof delete 944 S2...they're just exceedingly rare. 944s seem to be similar to BMW E36 M3s in that sense--slicktops are rare and sell quickly, often at a premium, compared to sunroof-equipped cars.
Short version: Agree w/ others. Buy it
09-27-2016, 03:41 AM
#23
Connor, perhaps the answer lies in customer desires and spec outs.
A different car for different sports apps or different tastes in 'sport'. Different track application or a mix of track and street type driving. Perhaps even a car more suited for certain types of mountain roads vs. smooth curving 'flatlander' or no elevation drives.
I know of some M456 cars with sport shox and sport springs and heavier sway bars fitted with LSD and minimal interior fitments. The upgrade would have been the next leap up the ladder with 'special option' groups such as H series, EDO, I series groups. These cars could have been fitted with as little or as much in the way of sporting intent, including rear parcel shelf/rear seat delete. No car had to leave the factory exactly the same as the other IF the buyer wanted it HIS way and Porsche was happy to make it and sell it that way.
I also know of an M404 car that was built with a number of deletes including the sunroof. It also got a number of additions including LSD and plastic fenders, hood, and Perspex windows. This is on a car with only marginally upgraded suspension additions over the standard or BASE 944. This is the way the original owner wanted it. More softly sprung for the type of track it was going to run......
The same holds true today with Porsche's special wish department and how one may choose their GT3 991.2 or GT4 Cayman. There are a multitude of arrangements one may choose on their new Spyder Boxster or their Boxster S. Different wheel size apps , combined with different suspension settings produce an entirely different handling car. Throw in PASM or the addition or deletion of sport setting pkgs. and one again has a totally different car.
A different car for different sports apps or different tastes in 'sport'. Different track application or a mix of track and street type driving. Perhaps even a car more suited for certain types of mountain roads vs. smooth curving 'flatlander' or no elevation drives.
I know of some M456 cars with sport shox and sport springs and heavier sway bars fitted with LSD and minimal interior fitments. The upgrade would have been the next leap up the ladder with 'special option' groups such as H series, EDO, I series groups. These cars could have been fitted with as little or as much in the way of sporting intent, including rear parcel shelf/rear seat delete. No car had to leave the factory exactly the same as the other IF the buyer wanted it HIS way and Porsche was happy to make it and sell it that way.
I also know of an M404 car that was built with a number of deletes including the sunroof. It also got a number of additions including LSD and plastic fenders, hood, and Perspex windows. This is on a car with only marginally upgraded suspension additions over the standard or BASE 944. This is the way the original owner wanted it. More softly sprung for the type of track it was going to run......
The same holds true today with Porsche's special wish department and how one may choose their GT3 991.2 or GT4 Cayman. There are a multitude of arrangements one may choose on their new Spyder Boxster or their Boxster S. Different wheel size apps , combined with different suspension settings produce an entirely different handling car. Throw in PASM or the addition or deletion of sport setting pkgs. and one again has a totally different car.
I'm quite familiar with the newer cars and their options, how they change the car etc. as well as the free-for-all that is Porsche Exclusive but less so some of the older Special Wishes programmes. Always learning! I'm just surprised at the lengths they seemed to go through on some of them back in the day.. It's what makes them so fascinating. Thanks for all the info! Big help! You need to write a book or something on this stuff, would make great coffee break or after dinner reading. So much missing and/or incorrect information out there.. Even a stickied thread with all of the option packages would be awesome.
09-27-2016, 04:31 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
ED0 has nothing to do with the factory M637 clubsport suspension package.
As Don said, ED0 was a marketing tactic, grouping/deleting various options. Could be as simple as pairing M220 and M474 with an M425 [rear wiper] delete.
As Don said, ED0 was a marketing tactic, grouping/deleting various options. Could be as simple as pairing M220 and M474 with an M425 [rear wiper] delete.
09-27-2016, 04:32 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
09-27-2016, 04:46 AM
#27
Edited: Yeah, I realized that. I got caught up in the extremity of what it entailed. Gets a bit confusing as he mentioned it was a dealer project but they were prepped by or saw time at Weissach before delivery..
Last edited by DasSilberWedge; 09-27-2016 at 05:22 AM.
09-27-2016, 08:50 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Pay a good Porsche shop that knows what to look for on the 944 Turbo to look over the car. Has the clutch been done? If no record of that and the timing belt service being done in the last few years, then factor those into your offer. Looks like a special car and may be worth a little extra up front.
09-28-2016, 06:29 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
