How Much Would a NEW 944 Cost?
10-26-2003 | 09:52 PM
#46
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From: Washington, D.C.
Why are high prices absurd on our cars??? My car sold new for $53,500 in 1991. I believe thats close to the base price of a modern 996C2. If the S2 was pushed properly, and given the chance to advance beyond what the 968 offered, i can easily see it selling now a days in the 60k range. Why not? Its still better than most of whats out there. Boxster S sells in the 50k range, our cars offer a lot more than a Boxster S could wish. Especially if they have even more modern developement. The interior of a 944 is still better than even the new 996 imo. Of course, if they developed the 944/968 any further, it would have put an end to the 911s worth.
Imagine a 944 S4 or something:
50/50 weight, perfect road feel and handling
Modern 8-piston calipers with BIG rotors
Stability control
4 wheel drive?
Ok, it might be a little chunky, but it would be one great car! What other sports car would give you 36mpg highway with 24-26mpg city with so much cargo space???
Imagine a 944 S4 or something:
50/50 weight, perfect road feel and handling
Modern 8-piston calipers with BIG rotors
Stability control
4 wheel drive?
Ok, it might be a little chunky, but it would be one great car! What other sports car would give you 36mpg highway with 24-26mpg city with so much cargo space???
10-26-2003 | 09:58 PM
#47
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From: FloriDUH
easy guys, tom is just bitter...
even though he has horribly misguaged porsche's reliability... perhaps he should have checked out a little thing called the 24 Hours @ Le Mans...
change your oil, drive it hard, treat it right, and they're as reliable as Honda.
-Michael-
even though he has horribly misguaged porsche's reliability... perhaps he should have checked out a little thing called the 24 Hours @ Le Mans...
change your oil, drive it hard, treat it right, and they're as reliable as Honda.
-Michael-
10-26-2003 | 11:26 PM
#48
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From: Mile High
whats bitter?
i said the same thing before i sold the rx7 and the porsche was stolen.
but you are right this is a porsche board, so Matt and I must not know proper etiquette is root only for the home team.
the good thing about being old is that i got to drive these cars when they were new. my buddy and I used to joke in the late 80s that the most reliable, and cheapest to maintain vehicle owned by our families was my dad's astro van that got occasional oil changes, and was used & abused as opposed to our pampered sports cars.
fact is and was you got a lot more for your money when you bought japanese. now going back to what it would cost today, you guys are probably right, couldnt get a 944 today for less than 60k. sure would sell a lot with $35k ZXs out there. i think the engineers call it "price point". sure you would spend the money because its a better car, and not the porsche name. talk to me when you have the $$.
i said the same thing before i sold the rx7 and the porsche was stolen.
but you are right this is a porsche board, so Matt and I must not know proper etiquette is root only for the home team.
the good thing about being old is that i got to drive these cars when they were new. my buddy and I used to joke in the late 80s that the most reliable, and cheapest to maintain vehicle owned by our families was my dad's astro van that got occasional oil changes, and was used & abused as opposed to our pampered sports cars.
fact is and was you got a lot more for your money when you bought japanese. now going back to what it would cost today, you guys are probably right, couldnt get a 944 today for less than 60k. sure would sell a lot with $35k ZXs out there. i think the engineers call it "price point". sure you would spend the money because its a better car, and not the porsche name. talk to me when you have the $$.
Last edited by Tom R.; 10-27-2003 at 02:06 PM.
10-27-2003 | 02:41 PM
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From: Mile High
dreams are free, but when it comes down to parting with the dead presidents the Japs seem to be winning. they almost drove porsche to bankruptcy before they decided to take on ferrari and almost drove themselves (nissan and mazda) to bankruptcy. the japanese carmakers made the americans rethink the definition of planned obsolesece.
When we bought the Aurora last year we looked at the acura RL and TL. the RL is made in japan, and just plain felt better than the TL which is made in america. ended up with the olds because the difference between the american made TL and detroit made aurora wasnt there.
now if you get me when im on a roll i can tell you all the design problems with my 93 camaro, and why it is no wonder that model was discontinued. You already know all the design problems with the 944. design problems with the second gen RX7? in 11 years and 40k miles all i did was change the oil, brakes, and a tune up before i sold it, i could bug my buddy for the list of work done on his dads 84 in the first 40k miles.
cars aren't designed by engineers any more, theyre designed by focus groups, and price point is the operative term.
When we bought the Aurora last year we looked at the acura RL and TL. the RL is made in japan, and just plain felt better than the TL which is made in america. ended up with the olds because the difference between the american made TL and detroit made aurora wasnt there.
now if you get me when im on a roll i can tell you all the design problems with my 93 camaro, and why it is no wonder that model was discontinued. You already know all the design problems with the 944. design problems with the second gen RX7? in 11 years and 40k miles all i did was change the oil, brakes, and a tune up before i sold it, i could bug my buddy for the list of work done on his dads 84 in the first 40k miles.
cars aren't designed by engineers any more, theyre designed by focus groups, and price point is the operative term.
10-27-2003 | 02:42 PM
#52
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Tom - you got it right. I love my Porsche but I love it for what it is. A very capable second hand car. The thing is (will be) downright fast, handles great, and I love to look at is and caress its fender flares.....um, back on track now. However, there is no way this car is doubly as good as the RXs I have. NA to NA or TII to 951.
They are not reliable as some have suggested (I have seen plenty of people on these boards say they spend 1-2K dollars a year in maintenance). I am buying a clutch right now, I am going to spend at least double if not triple what the custom clutch in my RX cost. I have spent 6 hours or more removing one piece of f'ing exhaust, where in the RX I have done headers to the pipe including swapping to single exhaust in under 2 hours on the floor.
The 944 series cars are GREAT cars. They just arent everything that you guys seem to think they are. Drawing correlation between the 24hrs and your daily driver is just dumb. Even the race teams tear down the cars they are delivered and totally rebuild them, engine included. If it makes you feel better then great. MY 951 is a nice car that is fun to own but it is not the only great car of its era. Maybe the best but for 2 times the price it really should have been better than the competition.
For people knocking the newer cars, this must be envy or the lack of having driven one. I wouldnt trade my 951 for a pre-964 car but anywhere after, sure. I REALLY enjoy driving the 993 and Boxster. The 996 is a great car but is a little bland for my taste.
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They are not reliable as some have suggested (I have seen plenty of people on these boards say they spend 1-2K dollars a year in maintenance). I am buying a clutch right now, I am going to spend at least double if not triple what the custom clutch in my RX cost. I have spent 6 hours or more removing one piece of f'ing exhaust, where in the RX I have done headers to the pipe including swapping to single exhaust in under 2 hours on the floor.
The 944 series cars are GREAT cars. They just arent everything that you guys seem to think they are. Drawing correlation between the 24hrs and your daily driver is just dumb. Even the race teams tear down the cars they are delivered and totally rebuild them, engine included. If it makes you feel better then great. MY 951 is a nice car that is fun to own but it is not the only great car of its era. Maybe the best but for 2 times the price it really should have been better than the competition.
For people knocking the newer cars, this must be envy or the lack of having driven one. I wouldnt trade my 951 for a pre-964 car but anywhere after, sure. I REALLY enjoy driving the 993 and Boxster. The 996 is a great car but is a little bland for my taste.
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10-27-2003 | 02:59 PM
#53
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From: Mile High
something about that rotary whine as the redline buzzer goes off that just....
"GREAT", and the be all and end all are not the same.
was my S2 a better car than my Z28? youbetcha it was. was it worth the 25k i had into it, or the 15k i got from insurance for it compared to the 9k i paid for the Z28? depends. handling wise it was worth the $$$, straight line the porsche lost.
fit and finish - well if you accept the gaps between the panels of the 944 as normal (they were twice the size of the competitors gaps when the car came out. it was so little kiddies didnt catch their fingers when the poked around the car) then the 944 has better fit and finish, otherwise i'll take the cheap piece of plastic on the dash that can be removed and replaced over the molded piece of the 944 that will inevitably crack. wouldnt you?
surviveability in an accident - i live in the suburbs of NYC that means every housewife needs and i stress needs a navigator to go grocery shopping while they talk on the phone. camaro wins on that one except maybe for
getting rear ended i would probably be better off in the 944 because the seat backs are designed better.
I got 100hp, posi, better acoustics, more rear leg room, $5000 and minimal repair bills in exchange for an IRS and nimbler handling.
it helps when i look at things with my rose colored glasses off.
yeah the japs do build some lemons, but didnt porsche build the 924 to compete with the 260Z and scirocco. talk about lemons.
"GREAT", and the be all and end all are not the same.
was my S2 a better car than my Z28? youbetcha it was. was it worth the 25k i had into it, or the 15k i got from insurance for it compared to the 9k i paid for the Z28? depends. handling wise it was worth the $$$, straight line the porsche lost.
fit and finish - well if you accept the gaps between the panels of the 944 as normal (they were twice the size of the competitors gaps when the car came out. it was so little kiddies didnt catch their fingers when the poked around the car) then the 944 has better fit and finish, otherwise i'll take the cheap piece of plastic on the dash that can be removed and replaced over the molded piece of the 944 that will inevitably crack. wouldnt you?
surviveability in an accident - i live in the suburbs of NYC that means every housewife needs and i stress needs a navigator to go grocery shopping while they talk on the phone. camaro wins on that one except maybe for
getting rear ended i would probably be better off in the 944 because the seat backs are designed better.
I got 100hp, posi, better acoustics, more rear leg room, $5000 and minimal repair bills in exchange for an IRS and nimbler handling.
it helps when i look at things with my rose colored glasses off.
yeah the japs do build some lemons, but didnt porsche build the 924 to compete with the 260Z and scirocco. talk about lemons.
10-27-2003 | 03:01 PM
#54
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Your ram D-50 is a Mitsu and I am sorry you had problems with it, my dad is driving one with 194K on it and I dont think we hace broken the 2000 dollar mark in maintenance. It is on its 1st clutch (after OE) and the 3rd set of tires. Other than that it hasnt been broken more than 5 times since we bought it.
On your Toyo, I bet the rotors are below spec. Likely replacing them will change your problem.
Not a big Chevy fan or domestic fan for that matter.
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On your Toyo, I bet the rotors are below spec. Likely replacing them will change your problem.
Not a big Chevy fan or domestic fan for that matter.
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10-27-2003 | 03:05 PM
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Tom- dont forget the Z is fiberglass. I dont buy that it would be more crashworthy but to each his own. I do agree though, great as they are they are not the only sports cars ever made.
BTW - Somewhere I have a video of me driving a 93 Z-28 to a 10.94 on street tires. LG performance 383 stroker, a little over 450HP, no badges, single exhaust and the lumpiest cam you ever saw. Car was a good car with a great motor. Finished 1st at the Super Chevy show in 1997. Car was stock bodied with original Goodyears (we had big wheels we ran everyday).
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BTW - Somewhere I have a video of me driving a 93 Z-28 to a 10.94 on street tires. LG performance 383 stroker, a little over 450HP, no badges, single exhaust and the lumpiest cam you ever saw. Car was a good car with a great motor. Finished 1st at the Super Chevy show in 1997. Car was stock bodied with original Goodyears (we had big wheels we ran everyday).
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10-27-2003 | 03:13 PM
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From: Mile High
matt,
dont the vette boys get pissed when the word fiberglass is used to refer to any other gm product. arent we supposed to call it plastic?
im going by what my cousin, a gm engineer said when i sent him the pictures of the 944 that got rammed by the dodge ram. he pointed out weaknesses in the 944 design that were incorporated into the 93 camaro design. too bad they couldnt design the damn floor to be flat. didnt they move the cat in 93 so you didnt need the hump on the passenger floor.
im supposed to put a baby seat in the camaro for those just in case times, soa little extra crashworthiness and bigger doors swayed me towards the larger car.
Matt,
is 11mpg in mixed easy driving normal? i may dump the hypertech and the whopping six or seven horsepower for a little better mileage. its the green in me coming out (both ecologically and financially)
dont the vette boys get pissed when the word fiberglass is used to refer to any other gm product. arent we supposed to call it plastic?
im going by what my cousin, a gm engineer said when i sent him the pictures of the 944 that got rammed by the dodge ram. he pointed out weaknesses in the 944 design that were incorporated into the 93 camaro design. too bad they couldnt design the damn floor to be flat. didnt they move the cat in 93 so you didnt need the hump on the passenger floor.
im supposed to put a baby seat in the camaro for those just in case times, soa little extra crashworthiness and bigger doors swayed me towards the larger car.
Matt,
is 11mpg in mixed easy driving normal? i may dump the hypertech and the whopping six or seven horsepower for a little better mileage. its the green in me coming out (both ecologically and financially)
10-27-2003 | 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Matt H
I wouldn't trade my 951 for a pre-964 car but anywhere after, sure.
-snip-
The 996 is a great car but is a little bland for my taste.
I wouldn't trade my 951 for a pre-964 car but anywhere after, sure.
-snip-
The 996 is a great car but is a little bland for my taste.
Point 2 - It might be a little bland, but seeing the prices on them right now has me regretting getting the boat. If I'd shed the boat and the 951, I could have easily had a 996. Damn. Oh well.
I had a chance to represent for us this weekend and blew it. Some guys did high speed runs on a closed course in central Texas, and no porsches were there. I knew about it and didn't go. I found out some magazine people were there. Shoot. I could've carried the banner for porsche on my lonesome. I would have easily been the fastest 4-cyl. There was only one WRX there (I know him), and the rest were Vipers and Z06's.
They told me the fastest car was a viper at 191, and two Hyabusa's did 206 mph. I'm not down with the bikes though. As I'm typing this one of my coworkers has entered his second week in a coma from crashing a Hyabusa, and his was a low-speed accident.
10-27-2003 | 03:30 PM
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The vette guys are a touchy group. The whole of the Camaro is Fiberglass. The hump is still there but it is not as obtrusive. Either way I cant stand the passeger area in them. Just uncomfortable. I am also not a big fan of the proportion of the Z28. The front is just too big for me to feel comfortable.
I hate the GM doors. I am driving around an 88 Regal right now, the doors are giant. Would be good for putting a baby seat in though.
11MPG is kinda low but I doubt the powertech has much to do with it. They just suck gas. I would say 15 is normal 18 is high. The powertech should be worth much more than 6-7HP BTW. You know I did forget one thing, the Z-28 had about 9 different diffs you could choose from, yours could just be a very high ratio or maybe even aftermarket, that is VERY common. You could swap in a 2.81 from an early Z-28 (93-94 base) which would help the MPG but it would make you appreciate your S2 a lot more.
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I hate the GM doors. I am driving around an 88 Regal right now, the doors are giant. Would be good for putting a baby seat in though.
11MPG is kinda low but I doubt the powertech has much to do with it. They just suck gas. I would say 15 is normal 18 is high. The powertech should be worth much more than 6-7HP BTW. You know I did forget one thing, the Z-28 had about 9 different diffs you could choose from, yours could just be a very high ratio or maybe even aftermarket, that is VERY common. You could swap in a 2.81 from an early Z-28 (93-94 base) which would help the MPG but it would make you appreciate your S2 a lot more.
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10-27-2003 | 03:33 PM
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Point 2 - It might be a little bland, but seeing the prices on them right now has me regretting getting the boat. If I'd shed the boat and the 951, I could have easily had a 996. Damn. Oh well
All this and you didnt tell me you had a boat...I thought we were friends! While the 996 is bland I think it would make a great daily driver. It doesnt elicit feelings in me like the 993 (and I am DAMN tired of watercooled cars every summer) but the 996 is a great car. Jennifer and I have been debating this for months. She wants a 993 and I keep trying to convince her that for a few dollars more we could have a much newer (read maybe with warranty) 996.
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All this and you didnt tell me you had a boat...I thought we were friends! While the 996 is bland I think it would make a great daily driver. It doesnt elicit feelings in me like the 993 (and I am DAMN tired of watercooled cars every summer) but the 996 is a great car. Jennifer and I have been debating this for months. She wants a 993 and I keep trying to convince her that for a few dollars more we could have a much newer (read maybe with warranty) 996.
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10-27-2003 | 04:00 PM
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fftopic: Yep, I've got a 23' center console. Maybe next summer you can come down and we'll have a Rennlist offshore fishing party. There's more to life than cars. Maybe go chase some kingfish and snapper. By this time of year seas get a little more disturbed. Running 4.3' at 25 miles today. That's not a lot of fun in a 23' boat. Anyway, keep it in mind for next year. I'll be staying inshore for the next few months, it's flounder time."First Annual Rennlist Offshore Fishing Party" - Roll that one around for awhile, it could be fun.