JR Reed

OK, I usually don't join into these conversations but I must give my opinion here. The 944 is a tall ship among the competition of the day. But it is all in the name. I have owned all the Japanese competition from 1984 (when my 944 was built)

The Supra, was as solid as any car ever. Bullet Proof and built to be abused. Sure it was a tank next to 944.

300zx turbo...faster by far. I used to look for 944's to kill. Handled well but 944 beats it in the corners every time.

RX7, a freaking rocket with handling to back it up...just really prone to being a tub of rust.

The thing is I get so much more mileage from the Porsche name with th 944.

If they had the same car today, it better be priced to compete, but it would not be. Look at boxter...low HP number compared to Japanese competition...way over priced. I'll put up with a little crappy plastic in a 350 z to save 20 large.

I wouldn't't pay more than 40 grand for a 2003 944

Luis de Prat

True, but the competitors were also far inferior in build quality. Look at those cars now and then check out ours. I'd say they were worth the extra money.

kinda5150

i just hope they would make it slightly smaller with no back seat. i still like the pop up headlights, but they would probably wanna put those ugly *** cayenne/911 headlights on it. 17"s would come standard. base price would be 28k. 3.0 liter would have 225hp, but the car would weigh in at 2600 lbs. the engine would also have variable valve timing. stainless steel exhaust. and just to be a little retro, they would have an option for those crazy seats, like checkerboard or whatever. turbo would put out 275 hp at a cost of 36k. they would directly compete with the 350z, rx8, and corvette. of course this time they would build it right, so that it would smoke the competition, staying just shy of the 911 figures. i can dream can't i?!!!!

Matt H

Look at those cars now and then check out ours. I'd say they were worth the extra money.

They are not worth double. I have had numerous RX-7s and all were in better shape the my 944s with the newest 951 being the exception. Has anyone bitching about build quality ever owned one of the Jap cars? And the next time build quality comes into play someone is coming over to remove my down pipe.
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ahofam123

My family has had great luck with Jap cars. Next time you see a rusted out Japanese car driving down the street, just think that that car requires less than ten percent of the maitenance and repairs than cars with the stuggart nameplate require. While Hondas are built for the economical people who don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for timing belts, waterpumps, DME relays, and chain tensioners, Porsche designed their cars for people who wouldn't mind spending money on such things to make their cars "last". I am sure that any Japanese car that required the same maitenance that our cars do will look mint after about 15 years of pampered care.

Rally Guy

I've owned seven RX-7's - from one of the very first (2400th car off the line - made in mid '78) to two 2nd gen Turbos.

Their build quality was excellent and crashworthiness prolly saved my life at least once. It's good story - I'll tell it sometime.

However - none of them were imbued with the enchantment and magic of the Porsches I've owned (a 951 and my current S2).

It's not even easily defineable - it's a heady mix of racing pedigree, pop-culture mystique, high-buck exclusivity (real or imagined, and perptuated by the current crop of cars - like the Carrera GT and the 959) and undeniably excllent engineering and performace where it counts.

There's also no denying all 94x owners enjoy the Porsche "halo" effect generated by 40 years of 911 and racing success. And that's fine by me - the cars are all inherently good - are a blast to drive and look terrific.

It's all good.

RK

devils944

OK, I will try to show the best restraint that I can and unfortunately Hakkar most of this will be directed at you.

First and foremost, the only people labeling the 944/968 as a "stepchild" would be the "purists" who believe the only Porsche is an air cooled model. Guess what? They don't make those anymore. The 911 FOLLOWED the 944/968 in water cooling. The 968 was the first Variocammed model. Once again, the 911 FOLLOWED.

The first and only true Porsche was a tractor. (or the VW Beetle as cars go)

Second the absurd notion that a sub 250HP 4 banger was some sort of rip off...Cars being produced today are barely hitting that mark with V-6's and those that are, are still torque weak examples. You bring in the Chevy Corvette...In 1991, the last year of the 944 the Corvette came in at a whopping 245HP from a 5.7 liter V-8...doing the math, that put the 4 cylinder S2 down by a scant 34 horsepower! 2.7 liters more engine and 4 more cylinders and you get only 34 horses! Now that my friends is a ripoff.

Based on the rise of HP in the 944/968 series over their lifetime the current HP (if still made) would be around the 320HP mark. There is no way in the world Porsche would allow the 996 and a car half of it's price to be built with such similar numbers.

Now...back to the Corvette...You have to throw away these power numbers when talking about cars. Those Evo's and WRX's can smoke a Z-06 in the 1/4 mile. ANYBODY can build fast, but, it takes a professional to build all around performance. From Chevy's ill fitting panels, questionable styling and Impala type interiors, the Corvette represents a cheap alternative to a real sports car, but let's face it...at $50K, it's still way overpriced for what you get. Chevy has all but admitted that they would like to bring the car up to the standards of it's German counterparts, but would effectively price itself out of it's intended target market.

Lastly, Japanese cars...great for reliability, but not quite a Porsche. The 1st and 2nd generation RX-7's (even the turbos) would barely compete with ANY of the 944 series. Without heavy mods the series 1 and 2 RX's were and are dogs. The 3rd generation is another story, but then again, $30K to $40K and seqential turbocharging got you quite a car...the only comparison that could be made would be the 1994 968 Turbo S vs. The 1994 RX-7 and head to head the 968 smokes it. For those of you who believe that Japanese cars have the same longevity as a 944, swallow this. In 1984 there were 20,000 944's built. The same year there were 79,000 300Zx's built. How come you see so many 1984 944's and very few ZX's. I don't buy the "pamper vs. beaten" theory. The 300ZX was quite pricey in it's day and probably just as maintained as any 944. The ZX just did not hold up and when Toyota finally built a world beater in the Supra Twin Turbo, it was priced accordingly (over $50K). The japanese build great, disposable cars.

The 944/968 series will be seen as the 914 - 928 and eventually Boxster is seen...the cars sold along side the 911 as an alternative to the 911. These cars were/will be/are seen as an introduction to Porsche ownership.

JimV8

Fascinating subject, considering progress in manufacturing process and speculating on if Porsche wanted a large volume car i'd say the price could profitably be in the 22 - 27K range. BTW anyone see the harley davidson Vrod thing on discovery channel , The engine is a Harley/Posrche collaboration. I'm going to the Harley distributer on Monday.

Matt H

The 1st and 2nd generation RX-7's (even the turbos) would barely compete with ANY of the 944 series.


That statement is just plain fiction. Since the 1st gen was gone long before the 944 lets just dwell with the second gen. Base model cost 11,900 in 1988 and had 146 HP at 2625 curb weight. The Turbo of the same year had 182 HP. The NA ran 8.1 in the 1/4 and the T-II did it in 6.5. Neither is ligHtnening but the early 944s which are lighter did 0-60 in 7.74 and the Turbo (86 model) shows 6.0 or 6.7 depending who you believe. So to say that any including the T-II would not compete appears to be an incorrect statement. BTW- they made those numbers with 1.3L dis.

The 911 FOLLOWED the 944/968 in water cooling

They had hit the limit of the air-cooled capabilities for street daily driving, plain and simple.

1994 968 Turbo S vs. The 1994 RX-7

Kinda like comparing apples to empire state buildings. How many 968TS's were built vs. the production of 3rd gen RX-7. One had to be reliable and the other didnt.

The 300ZX was quite pricey in it's day and probably just as maintained as any 944

The 300ZX was about the same price as the RX-7 of its day, they were not well cared for (have you ever seen one that was). It was also a portly bastard weighing over 1K lbs more than the RX.

It would be nice to see an occasional bit of fact thrown in with grossly inaccurate conjecture.
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iloveporsches

WOW! MY CAR'S AN 8 SECOND CAR?!?!?!?!

Guys, lighten up.

hacker-pschorr

I wasn't doing any calculation, the sticker on my S was $40k back in 1987. My car was manufactured in September of 1986.

hacker-pschorr

Hmm, just got done reading the rest of the posts. I'm surprised I wasn't beaten up more. I wasn't looking to start trouble, but stating such a strong opinion here usually leads to something.

devils944, this is directed at you. Forget the Japanese cars, not worth talking about. My point was, and I think you picked up on it, the 944 was not a bargain by any means towards the end of the 80's and through the 90's. You may disagree, I just don't see how my own 944S brand new could have been a $40k car. No way. I have the original sticker for it.

I'm going to let the Vette issue die since I don't like thread jacking. I actually cannot remember why I brought them up to begin with. I do have a long history of vette's. From racing teams to a friend that own one of the top corvette restoration shops in the US (or the midwest, not sure these days) so I am a bit biased. I can't help it though, the power and handling in a 92-96 for what they cost is unbelievable. Don't believe me? Check the SCCA nationals for auto-cross, see how many vette's are in the top. And I bet they are far cheaper to race than any 944. Ok, I'm done with the vette's. Back to 944's.

gilwong

Figure out the cost of your car (944, 951, S2) as a percentage of a 911. Take the current price of the 911 and multiply that by the previously mentioned percentage. This should give you a current theoretical price?

jaibeiber

i look at it this way. a audi S4 costs 40K i beleive. and audis interiors are some of the best. the quality of manufacturing is not quite that of porsche but close. and that car is fast as Hel!. so i would say as long as they fixed some of the problems these cars have and raised the HP i would say $35K sounds good. however you know thats not what they would sell them for. because i didnt calculate one thing. Porsche. the name alone is another $10K.

turbo944

Okay, I'm going to chime in here as I have owned and driven a HUGE number of 1980s sports cars and owned an 81 RX-7, an 86 Supra (non turbo, every option but the sport roof) and now my 951. I've driven lots of other other ones though and known friends who did own them.

In these cases the competition was copying the Porsches. Pretty easy to follow that someone leads and others follow. While some of those other Japanese cars look pretty nice, some of them (the 80's 300ZX) looks bulky and flabby to me. My RX-7 was pretty well worn out when I got it, but it was great fun to drive. And you can't really compare liter to liter between piston and rotary engines. The two function based on burning gas, but comparing displacement is a losing battle. Rotaries are great for almost no moving parts and being able to run high revs, but apex seals are a problem in them and they are terrible with fuel consumption (at least the earlier ones were) although the turbos weren't really any better. The Supra that I had in many ways had really good build quality, had an original interior in great shape, always garaged and well taken care of by its first and only owner. But i'ts not quite the tank the 951 is, although because of the differing hatch design, that was quieter than it is on my 951......

As for power, the 944 when it came out in 1983 was right on the numbers with the Mustang GT at that time and faster than the Camaro and the 82 Corvettes (no 83 Corvettes made). The first of the 84 Corvettes were still well underpowered and had terribly hard suspension and those dashboards are incredibly ugly to look at. They also pretty well all had their problems. Supras have head gaskets, Corvettes have those dashes going out and problems with some of those trannies (to the point where I've seen some recommend NOT buying a manual before the six speed) and Porsches have their stuff as well.

At this point in time we see LOTS of things in the past. A few of all of these cars were well kept up and many were not. However the Porsche quality seems to show through after all this time with less rust and other such problems. But many have been bought cheap and abused/not maintained and now there are many crappy 944s out there. Over time ANY of these cars could have had problems basically like you see on the 944. Power steering pumps, brakes, master cylinders, clutches, etc.

As for power, I think Porsche was right on the money all along....they seldom have the most power but they are almost always setting records with what they have. As someone mentioned, the 86 944 Turbo was one of the absolute fastest cars you could buy. And if what we've heard is true and Porsche detuned them, it puts it up even higher at the levels it should have had. The big problem Porsche had was the introduction of the many Japanese turbo cars at the start of the 90s and Porsches price premium suddenly caused them to lose a LOT of money. With the demise of the 944 Turbo, they didn't really have a car to compete truly with those Japanese cars. The 968 is nice, but for what you could get it here for, you could have a 300ZX TT with 400-450 hp. Now, someone mentioned 3rd gen RX-7s. Well, reliability wise those cars are AWFUL. They set some of the highest records for time in shop even brand new off the showroom floor and my friend who had a 400hp one that I have some video of had it in the shop a LOT and he changed the oil every 2K miles with castor oil to protect the apex seals. They were made so light that some parts were built too weak and have had some things break over time because of that. If Porsche had kept the 944T line going and moved it up to the 944 4V Turbo and Turbo Cab and had built 968T's in more numbers, the race in the early/mid 90s here would have been different.

Were they overpriced? To some journalists, yes...to others...no. After having driven them, part of the reason I now am driving a 944T instead of an early 90s 300ZX TT is in several parts. The styling I like better. Second, the Porsche has a heritage that is felt more fully in the car and even those guys in the 300ZX TTs often take notice of my car with those huge flanks and big wheels on my car. They are the spiritual father/mother of many of those Japanese cars as well. I like the steering much better in the Porsche and over time, the Porsche value seems to be better for my turbo than for the Nissan 300ZX TTs, etc. They are all falling below 10K and continuing to drop.

As for pricing, because of the huge jump in new car prices (and Porsche bringing down 911 prices a couple of times), I'd guess to look at the current competing market (350Z) that the 944 would be a $40K car now and the turbo optioned out with a cab probably $55K. What would they have? All the best options they came with then, plus now I think the sunroof would extend out on TOP of the car as the sunroofs in these cars are HUGE and that would eliminate having to remove it completely and also give the open air feel. Power levels would be 250 for the base model (to keep up with the base level sports cars like Mustangs) and around 320 for the turbos, pretty close to the 996 base power, maybe a bit more. The 944 Turbo was a very close match to the 3.2 Carrera 911 back in the days. DOHC, water cooled, intercooled/aftercooled turbo setup, monster brakes, cupholders , and a nice option kits from the factories with body kits, uprated power levels, etc.

Just my $9.51 (sheesh, Porsche prices keep going up....hehe)