You need to be a paid sponsor to engage in commerce on Rennlist.
08-28-2016, 03:32 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You need to be a paid sponsor to engage in commerce on Rennlist.
You need to be a paid sponsor to engage in commerce on Rennlist.
Last edited by Mark in Baltimore; 09-01-2016 at 10:50 AM. Reason: You need to be a paid sponsor to engage in commerce on Rennlist.
09-01-2016, 10:49 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
Hi,
I just checked through your posts and the vast majority of them are either trying to sell something or trying to buy something, with sparse contribution to the community in terms of technical support, camaraderie, etc. From shift ***** to floor liners to steering wheels to short shifters to Cayenne wheels to keys to headlights to foglights to wiper arms to roof antennas to brake calipers to floor mats to lift bars to turn signals, it seems that you have had quite the quasi business here.
Unfortunately, this is not how Rennlist works. Since this past August, you have created 25 different ads to sell your stuff. Twenty-five in one month. That has to be some sort of record. Even as a member, you are limited to the number of ads you can create. You are allowed to post in three forums and can only repeat it twice a month.
Here is what has been posted by the moderators:
Here is a link to the aforementioned quote:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...e-posting.html
I am going to temporarily delete all of your For Sale ads. You have two choices moving forward: 1) Become a Rennlist Small Business sponsor (or other type of appropriate sponsor) or 2) stay as a member and never sell anything on Rennlist again. You have been registered since 2004, so for the past twelve years, you have definitely extracted a lifetime's worth of advertising from Rennlist, at least compared to most members I have seen over the years.
There are approved sponsors here who have paid for the privilege of supporting our ancient chariots, and we don't want money to be taken away from them. If you persist in selling without a being a sponsor, you will lose your posting privileges.
Please click on this link (http://www.internetbrandsauto.com/contact) or contact “IB Nolan” so you can be put in the right direction for a sponsorship.
FYI, here is the Rennlist Charter that agreed to when you registered:
https://rennlist.com/charter/
Rennlist is a list server and web site with the primary intent of providing a reliable mailing list and forum to Porsche owners and enthusiasts worldwide. The Rennlist forums are intended to provide a forum for discussions about these cars and other Porsche/BMW/Audi-related matters.
The mailing lists will be professionally administered at all times.
List and web site hardware and software will reside at a professionally-managed site, with a high-speed Internet connection, daily backups, and operational support.
Rennlist mailing lists and Forums will at all times be open to free discussion about Porsche and other automobiles, assuming the discussion is related to the particular list’s topic and is not intentionally inflammatory, fraudulent, libelous, sexual, defamatory, racist, sexually defamatory, or demeaning. At no time will the list administrator(s) attempt to set editorial policy, except as noted above or in Section (5).
The list administrator(s) reserve the right to unsubscribe and ban members who act in an intentionally inflammatory, fraudulent, libelous, defamatory, racist or demeaning manner, or in a manner inconsistent with this charter, using any Rennlist system or message communication technology. Further, no private communications can be posted publicly, without the permission of the party that send you that private e-mail/message, as these are typically used to incite Flame wars. It is not our intent to stifle communications, but to insure that free and open communications can take place.
In keeping with Copyright law, Rennlist considers that the content of messages posted to any of the lists will remain the copyrighted material of its author, as the “original author”, unless the author specifically assigns copyright otherwise. Rennlist is considered a “forwarder” or “publisher”, and the combined “list/site messages” to be considered as “archives”, protected under Rennlist Copyright. Posts containing material which is protected under copyright, which a person does not have express permission to use, resell, distribute or otherwise make available are grounds for immediate termination of that user.
Rennlist will accept occasional commercial postings (not more than twice per month) to the general Rennlist e-mail discussion lists providing that they are short (25 lines or less). The Rennlist Forums will not accept any commercial postings without a Rennlist Sponsorship and/or Membership or prior consent of the Rennlist Administrator(s), and as a Member/Sponsor, limited to two Rennlist Forum threads per month. ‘Commercial’ postings are defined as those made by vendors with the intent to promote or sell goods or services. If you post as a commercial vendor/business more then twice per month, you will be contacted off the list by the Administrator and could be asked to take a three week “vacation” from Rennlist – should you object, the Administrator will be more then willing to help you “go on vacation” for that time period.
You may not have commercial links in your signature to non-supporting vendor sites (i.e. – “Rennlist Sponsor”) nor act in behalf of a commercial vendor, who is not a Sponsor, by having your SIG include a website from a vendor who is *not* a Rennlist Sponsor. We have a lot of Vendors who “use Rennlist” as their *free advertising* media.
You may not post links to Rennlist ‘deals’ and/or “group buys” offered by non-supporting Commercial Vendors or non-Members targeted at Rennlist subscribers. More times then not, folks are asked to do that for the “free advertising” that the Vendor enjoys – and the site Administrator has no way of contacting either party should something not be fulfilled. Also – This includes links to your e-Bay Auctions! DO NOT POST THEM as “Hey – check these out – I just saw these!”.
If you have been banned by Rennlist and attempt to register again using some means to get around the ban, such as using another email address, you agree to a $5,000 dollar reinstatement fee. You also agree that any disputes will be resolved in New Hampshire courts.
If you receive products for free or at a special discount from a vendor you must disclose that information when you make posts regarding that product. Any other type of vested interest that could cause you to potentially have a biased opinion must be disclosed.
Rennlist will also accept non-commercial “for sale” or “wanted” postings to all Rennlist E-mail lists only, providing that these postings are not too repetitive. “Repetitive” means posting items for sale more than twice a week or more than four times in one month. These “for sale” or “wanted” posts should be limited to 40 lines or less. On the Rennlist Forums – similar postings will only be permitted if the author is a paid Rennlist Member in good standing. Others will be deleted without notice.
At no time, will participation as a Rennlist member be disclosed publicly or privately by Rennlist. This includes third party inquiries as to whether you are a Rennlist Member and/or your Membership Number.
Our mailing list will at all times remain private. Your name and email address will never be given out or sold to any organization. Further, Rennlist has a strict non-disclosure policy.
While we intend to provide a forum for open communication between list members, we will accept no responsibility for business transactions performed with the aid of these lists, forum(s), and/or website(s).
While paid Membership is not required to access/post to Rennlist, site users do not have implied permission therefore, to “launch” their website within any Rennlist public area(s), nor patronize their website within Rennlist and its users for any reason whatsoever. If you would like to use Rennlist to publicize your website, please have written approval first from the site administrator – it’s common courtesy. How would you feel if Rennlist SPAMMED your site users/visitors? In the meantime, if you make such a post – it will be deleted and may result in your being banned from this site.
Rennlist is expected to be a dynamic site, responding to its member’s wishes and other opportunities. As a result, the administrator(s) will have authority to make changes in the administration, charter or policies of Rennlist, without prior notice or approval from the site users.
The Rennlist mailing lists have no affiliation with any other Porsche-related organization, including but not limited to Porsche AG, BMW AG, AUDI, PCNA, PCA, or any Marque-related publications.
Rennlist takes e-mail very seriously. Lost mail, or mail that doesn’t make it to the list server is a serious technical matter. Therefore, in-coming and out-going mail goes through two internal mail systems – one backing up the other. If, at any time, you believe our servers have lost a post, please go immediately to the web site and send a message to the Listmaster/webmaster.
Considering the real-time nature of this Mail List Server, it is impossible for Rennlist to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that Rennlist does not actively monitor (24 hours per day/seven days per week) the contents of and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Rennlist.
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use these Forums to post any material which is knowingly false, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person’s privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. Soliciting other list subscribers to participate or join in any legal proceeding – threatened, pending, or on-going is cause for that user to be banned without further recourse. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you.
Rennlist does not and cannot review each and every message that is posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages. Further, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever.
I appreciate your understanding.
Best,
Mark
I just checked through your posts and the vast majority of them are either trying to sell something or trying to buy something, with sparse contribution to the community in terms of technical support, camaraderie, etc. From shift ***** to floor liners to steering wheels to short shifters to Cayenne wheels to keys to headlights to foglights to wiper arms to roof antennas to brake calipers to floor mats to lift bars to turn signals, it seems that you have had quite the quasi business here.
Unfortunately, this is not how Rennlist works. Since this past August, you have created 25 different ads to sell your stuff. Twenty-five in one month. That has to be some sort of record. Even as a member, you are limited to the number of ads you can create. You are allowed to post in three forums and can only repeat it twice a month.
Here is what has been posted by the moderators:
Originally Posted by 911SLOW
Paying Members may advertise or link to an ad to buy or sell personal property. In the case of an item or items offered for sale, the price must be included in the post. Ads may appear in as many as three forums maximum, and repeated not more than twice per month.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-turb...e-posting.html
I am going to temporarily delete all of your For Sale ads. You have two choices moving forward: 1) Become a Rennlist Small Business sponsor (or other type of appropriate sponsor) or 2) stay as a member and never sell anything on Rennlist again. You have been registered since 2004, so for the past twelve years, you have definitely extracted a lifetime's worth of advertising from Rennlist, at least compared to most members I have seen over the years.
There are approved sponsors here who have paid for the privilege of supporting our ancient chariots, and we don't want money to be taken away from them. If you persist in selling without a being a sponsor, you will lose your posting privileges.
Please click on this link (http://www.internetbrandsauto.com/contact) or contact “IB Nolan” so you can be put in the right direction for a sponsorship.
FYI, here is the Rennlist Charter that agreed to when you registered:
https://rennlist.com/charter/
Rennlist is a list server and web site with the primary intent of providing a reliable mailing list and forum to Porsche owners and enthusiasts worldwide. The Rennlist forums are intended to provide a forum for discussions about these cars and other Porsche/BMW/Audi-related matters.
The mailing lists will be professionally administered at all times.
List and web site hardware and software will reside at a professionally-managed site, with a high-speed Internet connection, daily backups, and operational support.
Rennlist mailing lists and Forums will at all times be open to free discussion about Porsche and other automobiles, assuming the discussion is related to the particular list’s topic and is not intentionally inflammatory, fraudulent, libelous, sexual, defamatory, racist, sexually defamatory, or demeaning. At no time will the list administrator(s) attempt to set editorial policy, except as noted above or in Section (5).
The list administrator(s) reserve the right to unsubscribe and ban members who act in an intentionally inflammatory, fraudulent, libelous, defamatory, racist or demeaning manner, or in a manner inconsistent with this charter, using any Rennlist system or message communication technology. Further, no private communications can be posted publicly, without the permission of the party that send you that private e-mail/message, as these are typically used to incite Flame wars. It is not our intent to stifle communications, but to insure that free and open communications can take place.
In keeping with Copyright law, Rennlist considers that the content of messages posted to any of the lists will remain the copyrighted material of its author, as the “original author”, unless the author specifically assigns copyright otherwise. Rennlist is considered a “forwarder” or “publisher”, and the combined “list/site messages” to be considered as “archives”, protected under Rennlist Copyright. Posts containing material which is protected under copyright, which a person does not have express permission to use, resell, distribute or otherwise make available are grounds for immediate termination of that user.
Rennlist will accept occasional commercial postings (not more than twice per month) to the general Rennlist e-mail discussion lists providing that they are short (25 lines or less). The Rennlist Forums will not accept any commercial postings without a Rennlist Sponsorship and/or Membership or prior consent of the Rennlist Administrator(s), and as a Member/Sponsor, limited to two Rennlist Forum threads per month. ‘Commercial’ postings are defined as those made by vendors with the intent to promote or sell goods or services. If you post as a commercial vendor/business more then twice per month, you will be contacted off the list by the Administrator and could be asked to take a three week “vacation” from Rennlist – should you object, the Administrator will be more then willing to help you “go on vacation” for that time period.
You may not have commercial links in your signature to non-supporting vendor sites (i.e. – “Rennlist Sponsor”) nor act in behalf of a commercial vendor, who is not a Sponsor, by having your SIG include a website from a vendor who is *not* a Rennlist Sponsor. We have a lot of Vendors who “use Rennlist” as their *free advertising* media.
You may not post links to Rennlist ‘deals’ and/or “group buys” offered by non-supporting Commercial Vendors or non-Members targeted at Rennlist subscribers. More times then not, folks are asked to do that for the “free advertising” that the Vendor enjoys – and the site Administrator has no way of contacting either party should something not be fulfilled. Also – This includes links to your e-Bay Auctions! DO NOT POST THEM as “Hey – check these out – I just saw these!”.
If you have been banned by Rennlist and attempt to register again using some means to get around the ban, such as using another email address, you agree to a $5,000 dollar reinstatement fee. You also agree that any disputes will be resolved in New Hampshire courts.
If you receive products for free or at a special discount from a vendor you must disclose that information when you make posts regarding that product. Any other type of vested interest that could cause you to potentially have a biased opinion must be disclosed.
Rennlist will also accept non-commercial “for sale” or “wanted” postings to all Rennlist E-mail lists only, providing that these postings are not too repetitive. “Repetitive” means posting items for sale more than twice a week or more than four times in one month. These “for sale” or “wanted” posts should be limited to 40 lines or less. On the Rennlist Forums – similar postings will only be permitted if the author is a paid Rennlist Member in good standing. Others will be deleted without notice.
At no time, will participation as a Rennlist member be disclosed publicly or privately by Rennlist. This includes third party inquiries as to whether you are a Rennlist Member and/or your Membership Number.
Our mailing list will at all times remain private. Your name and email address will never be given out or sold to any organization. Further, Rennlist has a strict non-disclosure policy.
While we intend to provide a forum for open communication between list members, we will accept no responsibility for business transactions performed with the aid of these lists, forum(s), and/or website(s).
While paid Membership is not required to access/post to Rennlist, site users do not have implied permission therefore, to “launch” their website within any Rennlist public area(s), nor patronize their website within Rennlist and its users for any reason whatsoever. If you would like to use Rennlist to publicize your website, please have written approval first from the site administrator – it’s common courtesy. How would you feel if Rennlist SPAMMED your site users/visitors? In the meantime, if you make such a post – it will be deleted and may result in your being banned from this site.
Rennlist is expected to be a dynamic site, responding to its member’s wishes and other opportunities. As a result, the administrator(s) will have authority to make changes in the administration, charter or policies of Rennlist, without prior notice or approval from the site users.
The Rennlist mailing lists have no affiliation with any other Porsche-related organization, including but not limited to Porsche AG, BMW AG, AUDI, PCNA, PCA, or any Marque-related publications.
Rennlist takes e-mail very seriously. Lost mail, or mail that doesn’t make it to the list server is a serious technical matter. Therefore, in-coming and out-going mail goes through two internal mail systems – one backing up the other. If, at any time, you believe our servers have lost a post, please go immediately to the web site and send a message to the Listmaster/webmaster.
Considering the real-time nature of this Mail List Server, it is impossible for Rennlist to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that Rennlist does not actively monitor (24 hours per day/seven days per week) the contents of and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of Rennlist.
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use these Forums to post any material which is knowingly false, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person’s privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. Soliciting other list subscribers to participate or join in any legal proceeding – threatened, pending, or on-going is cause for that user to be banned without further recourse. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you.
Rennlist does not and cannot review each and every message that is posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages. Further, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever.
I appreciate your understanding.
Best,
Mark
09-01-2016, 04:04 PM
#4
Freedom Enthusiast
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Am I reading this correctly?
"Rennlist will accept occasional commercial postings (not more than twice per month) to the general Rennlist e-mail discussion lists providing that they are short (25 lines or less). The Rennlist Forums will not accept any commercial postings without a Rennlist Sponsorship and/or Membership or prior consent of the Rennlist Administrator(s), and as a Member/Sponsor, limited to two Rennlist Forum threads per month. ‘Commercial’ postings are defined as those made by vendors with the intent to promote or sell goods or services. If you post as a commercial vendor/business more then twice per month, you will be contacted off the list by the Administrator and could be asked to take a three week “vacation” from Rennlist – should you object, the Administrator will be more then willing to help you “go on vacation” for that time period."
That paragraph implies that members who are not business sponsors can post up to two commercial threads per month as long as they are short. Is this correct?
"Rennlist will accept occasional commercial postings (not more than twice per month) to the general Rennlist e-mail discussion lists providing that they are short (25 lines or less). The Rennlist Forums will not accept any commercial postings without a Rennlist Sponsorship and/or Membership or prior consent of the Rennlist Administrator(s), and as a Member/Sponsor, limited to two Rennlist Forum threads per month. ‘Commercial’ postings are defined as those made by vendors with the intent to promote or sell goods or services. If you post as a commercial vendor/business more then twice per month, you will be contacted off the list by the Administrator and could be asked to take a three week “vacation” from Rennlist – should you object, the Administrator will be more then willing to help you “go on vacation” for that time period."
That paragraph implies that members who are not business sponsors can post up to two commercial threads per month as long as they are short. Is this correct?
09-01-2016, 07:05 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
That charter language seems to draw no distinction between commercial posts by Members and commercial posts by Sponsors which, if true, would seem to undermine the basic point of paying to be a Sponsor. In contrast, John D.'s sticky post at the top of this forum says: "In short, if you are not a Sponsor, the Rennlist Charter prohibits commercial posts to the Forums." He doesn't point to any language in the charter to support that, and the actual language of the charter seems to say the exact opposite.
Looks like some clarification and/or clean up is needed so that everyone is playing by the same rules.
Pure speculation, but wonder if the charter was written a long time ago when Sponsors were thought of more like corporate sponsorships -- like Coke sponsoring the Olympics, etc., rather than people posting on the forum to hawk their wares -- and John was essentially modifying the rules by executive fiat (but without re-writing the charter) once RL became the go-to place to hawk wares?
Looks like some clarification and/or clean up is needed so that everyone is playing by the same rules.
Pure speculation, but wonder if the charter was written a long time ago when Sponsors were thought of more like corporate sponsorships -- like Coke sponsoring the Olympics, etc., rather than people posting on the forum to hawk their wares -- and John was essentially modifying the rules by executive fiat (but without re-writing the charter) once RL became the go-to place to hawk wares?
Trending Topics
09-12-2016, 09:42 PM
#8
Freedom Enthusiast
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
09-12-2016, 11:01 PM
#9
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Eric,
I don't see what you and I and others occasionally do as "commerce" as we are not operating a business continually...
We just have spare stuff to offload from time to time and are regular technical contributors...
Mark, please let me know your thoughts on this ?
I don't see what you and I and others occasionally do as "commerce" as we are not operating a business continually...
We just have spare stuff to offload from time to time and are regular technical contributors...
Mark, please let me know your thoughts on this ?
09-13-2016, 02:56 AM
#10
Freedom Enthusiast
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
There are several threads floating around where non-business sponsors are selling things they made(new parts) and nothing is said about these threads dedicated to selling these items. I on the other hand have had posts removed and I have been threatened for simply posting a response to people spreading misinformation about a part that I help sell occasionally. When I brought this disparity to the moderators attention, he was unwilling to look for these threads himself. He wanted me to rat these other members out which I was not willing to do. Some of the people posting these threads are my friends so I don't want to mess things up for them. I'd just like to be able to correct misinformation when I comes up related to something I help sell maybe once every 2 to 3 months. Making maybe $100 every 2 to 3 months is hardly a "Business" and doesn't justify the expense of a small business membership.
09-24-2016, 03:56 AM
#12
Freedom Enthusiast
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Do the moderators have anything constructive to add to this thread?
It's not about being butt hurt, it is about paying $150 a month to be a business sponsor for a product that might sell one unit every 2 months with a profit margin of less than $150 per unit. Paying $300 every 2 months to make $150 is not a sustainable business model. To Jay and Curtis and anyone else who likes that business model I'll offer you an even better deal, You pay me $450 every 2 months and I'll send you $150. You don't even have to deal with production costs and hassles, shipping, paypal fees, or bank transfer fees. That is saving you a ton of work and hassle, you should take that deal.
For people who want to talk about the real world, it makes no sense economically to be a business partner for such a low volume product. No sales have come directly from Rennlist for what we sell and yet because we do sell something, we are not allowed to talk about it in any way on this forum. We can't even correct lies about it without risking an outright ban by a moderator who has a close connection with another seller of a similar product.
It's not about being butt hurt, it is about paying $150 a month to be a business sponsor for a product that might sell one unit every 2 months with a profit margin of less than $150 per unit. Paying $300 every 2 months to make $150 is not a sustainable business model. To Jay and Curtis and anyone else who likes that business model I'll offer you an even better deal, You pay me $450 every 2 months and I'll send you $150. You don't even have to deal with production costs and hassles, shipping, paypal fees, or bank transfer fees. That is saving you a ton of work and hassle, you should take that deal.
For people who want to talk about the real world, it makes no sense economically to be a business partner for such a low volume product. No sales have come directly from Rennlist for what we sell and yet because we do sell something, we are not allowed to talk about it in any way on this forum. We can't even correct lies about it without risking an outright ban by a moderator who has a close connection with another seller of a similar product.
Last edited by azbanks; 09-24-2016 at 05:19 PM.
09-24-2016, 05:49 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
That really would be 'negative gearing' ;-)
09-24-2016, 08:32 PM
#14
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Is not $150.00 a month
09-24-2016, 09:03 PM
#15
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hotlanta - NE of the Perimeter
Posts: 12,269
Received 266 Likes
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Do the moderators have anything constructive to add to this thread?
It's not about being butt hurt, it is about paying $150 a month to be a business sponsor for a product that might sell one unit every 2 months with a profit margin of less than $150 per unit. Paying $300 every 2 months to make $150 is not a sustainable business model. To Jay and Curtis and anyone else who likes that business model I'll offer you an even better deal, You pay me $450 every 2 months and I'll send you $150. You don't even have to deal with production costs and hassles, shipping, paypal fees, or bank transfer fees. That is saving you a ton of work and hassle, you should take that deal.
For people who want to talk about the real world, it makes no sense economically to be a business partner for such a low volume product. No sales have come directly from Rennlist for what we sell and yet because we do sell something, we are not allowed to talk about it in any way on this forum. We can't even correct lies about it without risking an outright ban by a moderator who has a close connection with another seller of a similar product.
It's not about being butt hurt, it is about paying $150 a month to be a business sponsor for a product that might sell one unit every 2 months with a profit margin of less than $150 per unit. Paying $300 every 2 months to make $150 is not a sustainable business model. To Jay and Curtis and anyone else who likes that business model I'll offer you an even better deal, You pay me $450 every 2 months and I'll send you $150. You don't even have to deal with production costs and hassles, shipping, paypal fees, or bank transfer fees. That is saving you a ton of work and hassle, you should take that deal.
For people who want to talk about the real world, it makes no sense economically to be a business partner for such a low volume product. No sales have come directly from Rennlist for what we sell and yet because we do sell something, we are not allowed to talk about it in any way on this forum. We can't even correct lies about it without risking an outright ban by a moderator who has a close connection with another seller of a similar product.
Either you're an enthusiast who has an occasional part or two to sell or you're a pseudo business.
For the original situation, it appears to be pretty clear that the individual was treating this as their personal marketplace by selling more than just the occasional part. Apparently, if one does this they should be a sponsor according to the rules that we agreed to when we clicked the 'I agree' button.
So the OP got called out for it. It is what it is.