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No, the 996 or Cayman are more in the price range of an LS swap.
300HP is nontrivial out of an 8v 2.5L, it'll be a significantly modded car and the ownership experience will reflect that. I picked 300 as it's closer to the 944/LS setup I imagined, not sure what the OP's goals and expected usage are.
There are a fair number of parts I am not seeing on that swap list. It'd probably be $10K by the time it was driving around and that's without a value for the wrenching and problem-solving time. Smarter IMO to fix and sell and buy a Turbo or S2 or 968, depending on what the OP wants. There are still a few turbos out there under $10K. A swapped NA, swapped to 951 or LS or whatever, is not good if it gets stolen or totaled or when the owner decides it's time to sell.
I have thought a lot about a swap and have even accumulated parts. My goal was an S2 or 968 cab with torquey 300whp or thereabouts and a near-stock ownership experience. I have not found factory alternatives. Mustangs, meh. Corvettes, too expensive for a yucky interior and I do not want to take up smoking. The Maserati Spyder is the best option I have come up with so far and I'd be thinking it'd need to be swapped to a 3-pedal car or I get into buying cambiocorsa clutches in bulk. Audi S5, maaaaybe. Bigger than I had in mind. Common in these parts.
If you are OK with a coupe however it's easier. 928S4, various BMW...
-Joel.
Thanks for the replies, guys. I am doing all of the work myself and I got the engine, harness and ecu for 300. I think I can do the swap for 3k with New brakes and suspension. Thanks for the link Lemming. Stay tuned for a build thread if you guys are interested.
not including brake updates and suspension tweaks/upgrades, i was around $53,000 for my swap. cost a penny but we're down the road apiece and i'm addicted, all in, and sweating blood. engine sounds kinda like the GT40 that won La Mans. next up, the guage project (i'm such a slouch so late on this) and kinda on the fence maybe add a few ponies with addition by subtraction w/ maybe a composite hood.
Getting to the running and driving stage of the LS swap is a labor of love. It takes a lot of time and money but i think the end result was well worth it. I had around $25k into my swap but a lot of that was redoing stuff that was messed up the first time around. I sold a ton of stuff from the turbo engine so i think out of pocket was only around $15k in the end.
I think realistically you can do a bare bones swap for around $6-7k if you are doing the labor. This is no frills, no power brakes or anything of the sort. Basically keep throwing money at it for a higher level of refinement. I think $10k is a good estimate if you do most of the work yourself for something with power steering and power brakes.
No, the 996 or Cayman are more in the price range of an LS swap.
300HP is nontrivial out of an 8v 2.5L, it'll be a significantly modded car and the ownership experience will reflect that. I picked 300 as it's closer to the 944/LS setup I imagined, not sure what the OP's goals and expected usage are.
There are a fair number of parts I am not seeing on that swap list. It'd probably be $10K by the time it was driving around and that's without a value for the wrenching and problem-solving time. Smarter IMO to fix and sell and buy a Turbo or S2 or 968, depending on what the OP wants. There are still a few turbos out there under $10K. A swapped NA, swapped to 951 or LS or whatever, is not good if it gets stolen or totaled or when the owner decides it's time to sell.
I have thought a lot about a swap and have even accumulated parts. My goal was an S2 or 968 cab with torquey 300whp or thereabouts and a near-stock ownership experience. I have not found factory alternatives. Mustangs, meh. Corvettes, too expensive for a yucky interior and I do not want to take up smoking. The Maserati Spyder is the best option I have come up with so far and I'd be thinking it'd need to be swapped to a 3-pedal car or I get into buying cambiocorsa clutches in bulk. Audi S5, maaaaybe. Bigger than I had in mind. Common in these parts.
If you are OK with a coupe however it's easier. 928S4, various BMW...
-Joel.
Looking at an Audi S5 this weekend as an alternative to an LS swap 944. Good call.
My daily 'driver' is an S5. Daily in quotes because I end up driving the 944Turbo all summer.
944 and S5 are totally different cars.
S5 is a rocket, especially from a dead stop (and with DCT transmission), but I get very little enjoyment making turns in it. It feels big, heavy, and even with the torque-vectoring differential it's always understeering. It's a GT car and very comfortable at high speeds, long trips, and comfortable for the daily grind.
944T is slower, especially from zero, but god damn do I love driving it. So much more engaging in every way. I fully utilize every on and off-ramp when clear.
I'm not against the LS swaps for purity - I think it'd be fun to own a fully sorted one - but they are a quagmire in the practical and financial sense. Either you dump big money and time into one, or it's never completely finished. End result is the same - not worth as much as an unmodified car.
For an easy route to an LS powered ride you might consider a Corvette. Some of them already come with LS motors, and you get a 'yucky' interior free of charge.
If that level of power were important to me, that's what I'd do...Corvettes are great cars.
For an easy route to an LS powered ride you might consider a Corvette. Some of them already come with LS motors, and you get a 'yucky' interior free of charge.
If that level of power were important to me, that's what I'd do...Corvettes are great cars.
agree 100%. If I wasn't absolutely hopelessly smitten with the 951, I'd be driving a C6. After all the money I've dumped into all my porsches over the years, I could have easily afforded one.
Getting to the running and driving stage of the LS swap is a labor of love.
the results are sublime. a properly running 944/968 LS car is nothing sloppy. it just seems that way because people tune them with choppy cams and loud exhausts... i think running 3 mufflers on my street car made a huge difference in forging a balance between the unplugged 60's supercar and a functional road car for long highway hauls.... it can be driven just like any other GT car - which is how i drive it 99.99% of the time. or you can test it a little.... all the way up to scary fast, no make that violently fast - when you want to .... yet, the car handles all that power perfectly, just as it was designed by Porsche.
i've done 5 transcon missions of over 3 k miles and a like a dozen long trips of 400-1500 miles basically, without a hitch (header bolts that came loose w/ a quick fix). that's serious performance on-demand for such a challenging sports car to modify.
can an LS 944/968 be built to be as refined as a v8 Vantage? no. but done right, save for lacking the exquisite interior, modern dash and instrument cluster, it's fairly close.
Originally Posted by mrgreenjeans
I haven't seen a conversion yet that WAS a good example or something I would take over any of my 944s
i've got 24 k miles *(26 k now) on my v8 supercar since 1 Sept 2015. just shy of 8 k miles in the last 3 weeks.
Car feels like it's riding on glass and handles like it's on rails. feels like a 968 that grew a supercar powerplant.
it makes one sound... Foooommmmmm. and drinks premium gas. once in a while i change the oil....
i can assure you, no one who's ever gotten behind the wheel of the Sledgehammer has ever had a bad word. i was on 93 heading into Boston stuck in bumper to bumper for 40 minutes in 92 degree heat the other day, and even a Statie rolled down his window and yells out, 'awesome car man!!' along with several other nice commenters.
Originally Posted by mrgreenjeans
I guess all 100,000 plus purchasers of the 924 and 100,000 plus purchasers of the various 944 variants when new, also shared the same level of insanity you accuse me of. (-;
drove my '87 944S from 17k-116k miles. drove my '94 968 from 77k-199k miles.
been there, done that, been there again, and again and again.... these cars are nice. no way i'd tangle with a 944 again though. their electricals weren't very good to begin with..... have you ever turned on a 25 year old laptop? these cars' electricals are this side of fried. get a 968, and you'll have far fewer problems.
there's not that much 'Chebby' about my car; whether idling at the gas station or driving it. no one's ever suspected it's a chevy powerplant. yes, it's a pushrod v8. but the single open pipe combo allows it to make it's own unique sound. the 2 resonators + large muffler renders something uniquely different from other open pipe systems, or oem or hopped up chevy i hear.... then there's the loud factor. or should i say, the lack thereof. it's fairly quiet on the secondary roads.... but, even more quiet on the freeway. making it's signature, 'fooooomm' sound.
there is some kit car/or (old '90s supercar factor); as w/ the oil lines, and a bunch of stuff close to the headers; so, it's necessary to be vigilent. but, i've already had the passenger side header off, to add some insulation... it's not that hard to get to everything.
But driving it? no kit car factor whatsoever. it's insane. or it's not, depending on what you want to do... did i mention no timing belt/s?
Originally Posted by amber lamps
OD's sledgehammer is just that ---- a SLEDGEHAMMER!!!
From the outside it sorta looks like a 968 and a 993 had sex in the back of a paint booth. Inside it looks like any other car from the 90's. Push the starter button and all hell breaks loose. It's a satanic symphony of deep tones and unpleasantries. You are consumed with doubt and anxiety. It is going to kill you. Heavy clutch, loud clunk into gear, and you better have your will in order. Let out the clutch and the tires roast at will. The car is fast, balanced, beautifully executed. Once on the road, one fourty is only moments away. Didn't even know it had a six speed. Told OD I never drove it all winter. I drove it then ran to the bathroom to take a **** I was so shaken. The car is possessed with the spirits of 1,000 speed demons. Only Lucifer could have conceived of such an auto. Like that smokin' hot chick that was crazy in bead. OD got this one right.
Last edited by odurandina; 07-20-2016 at 08:12 AM.
My daily 'driver' is an S5. Daily in quotes because I end up driving the 944Turbo all summer.
944 and S5 are totally different cars.
S5 is a rocket, especially from a dead stop (and with DCT transmission), but I get very little enjoyment making turns in it. It feels big, heavy, and even with the torque-vectoring differential it's always understeering. It's a GT car and very comfortable at high speeds, long trips, and comfortable for the daily grind.
944T is slower, especially from zero, but god damn do I love driving it. So much more engaging in every way. I fully utilize every on and off-ramp when clear.
I'm not against the LS swaps for purity - I think it'd be fun to own a fully sorted one - but they are a quagmire in the practical and financial sense. Either you dump big money and time into one, or it's never completely finished. End result is the same - not worth as much as an unmodified car.
I would pick up a e92 m3 before dropping 30k+ on a ls swapped 944. Why go through all that trouble or pay double for someone else to do it when you can have multiple cars that do nearly everything better bone stock? Not knocking anyone or their cars but would a c63, cayman s, 911, e92, vantage, c6 z51, r8, 4c not be an easier choice? Maybe I'm too practical.
Yes, i agree..... 5-6 years ago, entry-level supercars and high end sports cars were still coming into their own and the supply was relatively low.
we have so much supply now.... and the baby boomers are downsizing their car collections.... a lot of cars should be on anyone's menu. making these cars work is very challenging. tomorrow i'll put something up that brings that home.
Originally Posted by disasterman
I ran the car on our local track Waterford Hills and the car is a monster. Even on 15 cycle slicks the car was at least 5 seconds faster (1.4 mile track) than a well set up 996 cup with DOT's.
Originally Posted by mrgreenjeans
I haven't seen a conversion yet that WAS a good example or something I would take over any of my 944s
There's a Utube video about using an LS 9 engine. Might be the best way to go if you want to do an LS swap. 500 horse with 22mpg...Don't know if the tranny could handle it though...too many after-the-swap mods required to do this..lotsa issues on bringing it into the 21st century..unless you want to gut it, and rebuild/re-engineer the car to upgraded standards and have 50K in it..but it's YOUR $$ and YOUR talent to get it where you want it to be. Personally, stock, with upgraded electronics seems the best way to go for me. My .02 cents.
LS9 crate engines are rated 638 hp/604 ft lbs at the flywheel with factory headers/intake and stock tune/pump gas. The kit which is essentially the complete motor with oil pan (minus the oil lines and oil tank needed since the LS9 is dry sump) and flywheel + ECU + harness is ~22k which honestly is not that bad when you realize that the thing is a turn key 600+ hp engine with baby smooth idle and a factory warranty and lots of headroom left...Someone with a lot of time could easily stuff that into a 944 and be done for under 30k if they did it all them selves. That'd be a real super car, forget your Ferrari.
From that perspective, you may as well go GM and drop that LS9 into a Camaro as it would be the greater victory to beat a Ferrari with that than a kit-car Porsche.
07-18-2016, 01:43 PM
