SidViscous

"Maybe if the US Army was actually on their own soil"

Copnstitutionally the US Arrmy is not allowed to operate in that manner.

As to Canadians understanding America. You don't. take this from a guy who works for a Canadian company and spends a lot of time there. I'll grant you that More Candians probably know how many states we have than Americans, but as to everyday life, you don't. You would be amazed at how many Candians (Yourself inculded infered from your statements) think that our poor are dying on the streets because they cannot get healthcare.

This is simply not true. They can get healthcare, they just cannot choose thier own doctor. Oftentimes they have to go to the Emergency room for realitively minor things, and they might sit around for a few hours before they get bandaged up, but they do get health care.

On the flip side, I know verywell what healthcare in Canda is like. And here is the deal. Our people with NO health insurance will get treatment before a Candian in his country would. People here often get bypass surgery the same day they are admited to a hospital after a heart attack. I know people in Canada and England that have had to wait as long as 8 months for the same procedure


Not to mention if our healthcare system is so awful, why do wealthy people from all over the world (Incluiding the English royal family) come here to get treated for many things.

AS to violence, it is limited mostly to urban areas, and mot of our fear comes from our media outlets that get more and more fearmongering in the chase for ratings. And the fact that most of our citizens are dolts who couldn't think for themselves to save thier life.

BeerBurner

In all honesty, I think it's rather dangerous to assume that criminals are criminals because they are dumb. While some of them are (and it likely plays a partial role in many others), I'm inclined to think that many (at least the successful ones) are driven more by laziness and the lack of any sense of what is right and wrong. Why should someone slave away flipping burgers at McD's for $50/day when they can score $500-1,000 in one night by hawking stolen merchandise? For someone who is unable/unwilling to do any better than fast food, the extra money is definately appealing.

Besides, it's the dumb criminals that usually get caught...

Anywho, to reiterate my point, I'm not saying that we should start shooting everyone who appears to be a threat. However, I do think we should stop allowing ourselves to be so easily victimized when it really doesn't take much to avoid it. And that can mean anything... I don't mean you have to buy a gun. This can mean a security system, a large, hungry dog or even the simple act of saying "no."

I know several women who were the intended victims of a mugging. They managed to not get mugged because they simply refused to give up their purses. The muggers, who were expecting an easy mark, were confused because they didn't know what to do next. They also realized that it was taking much longer than they were comfortable with and beginning to draw some attention. Rather than continuing, they simply left because every second longer would greatly increase their chances of getting caught.

Another friend of mine had her purse snatched on a crowded train in France. Rather than say "Oh, woe is me!" she pursued the guy and had him cornered in a crowded car. She proceeded to scream "GIVE ME BACK MY PURSE!!!" and she got her purse back.

I have come to find that I have been able to leave my car running in a parking lot for twenty minutes and come back and find the car still there. Why? Because my roommate's 95-pound german shepard was sitting in the back seat.

I'm not necessarily advocating violence, but rather the idea that all it takes is a simple change in society's mindset to turn the tables on criminals, making their jobs much harder. It doesn't have to be done under the barrel of a gun. That is just one way to do it.

BB.

SidViscous

Buddy of mine was in DC once. Guy came up and asked for a cigarette. Buddy said sure, and gave him one. Then the guy said now give me the watch (A fake $20 Rolex). My buddy said no. (You should also know that my buddy was about 6'2" 220 lbs, all muscle, I once saw him flip another largish guy over his head) So the mugger pulls out a knife and says "Now give me your watch" My buddy grabbed the blade in his bare hand and punched him in the face, and said "No"

Guy had let go of the knife and fallen on his ***, he got up and made a new record for the 100yd dash. MY buddy's hand got pretty cut-up, but he kept his $20 fake Rolex.

On a side point, a quote I've always liked. said by a Marine Gunny who taught us hand to hand combat. "In a knife fight the looser goes to the mourge, the winner to the hospital."

Jeff928S4

Sid, I think we are on different thought processes on this one. Let me explain what I meant when I said crooks lack intelligence. If one person has a gun and his enemy has a gun, it seems like it would just end up with a lot of dead people in the end, no? What I meant was that crooks can be fought with the one thing that separates them from the average citizen......eduaction. Put more money into the schools, educate the people so they can use THAT weapon to gain all the things they are using guns to get now. Education of potential crooks will stop them from being crooks, thus eliminating the need for more guns by citizens.

I do understand that - but there IS something to stop crooks from getting guns......lack of guns!!! But as long as Joe America feels the need to be armed, guns will still be mass produced. I'm almost certain that Smith and Wessen (sp?) isn't thinking about criminals when they build guns, correct? They produce them because America wants them. Too many guns around = higher chance of a crook getting one. There has to be a clean sweep of guns everywhere to cut down on crooks getting guns. So, basically....if you want the crime to stop, you have to ALL give up your guns. See what I'm saying? The cycle has to be broken.....it isn't getting any better down there is it? So, why let the bad cycle continue - stop it now before it gets really bad.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about. Here in Canada (and I'm sure in the US also), if an "over-the counter" drug becomes something that starts being used the wrong way, we simply either put it behind the counter or stop making them. What if they invented a drug that makes fat people skinny and skinny people figured out that if they take said drug, they gain muscle mass? The goal of the drug was to HELP fat people, not skinny people. Also, when skinny people take it - it eventually kills them. Would we pull that drug and let the fat people come up with alternative methods of weight loss or would we mass produce the drug so both fat people and skinny people could get it, knowing it will kill all the skinny people? Of course we would get rid of it all together, it's too dangerous.

Same with guns. They are not meant to kill humans. They are meant as hunting or recreational devices, but when crooks figure out they can kill people with them for personal gain (like the skinny people with the drugs), why in the hell would they mass produce them so EVERYONE can have them? Wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense to just drop the guns all together and let people look for alternative ways to protect themselves (like the fat people in my example)?????

I feel your frustration Sid - I know that putting away your gun is something that will NEVER happen in America, yet I'm sure you all don't want to live a life where you need to have a gun. It's kind of a "you put your's down first and then I'll put mine down" thing. But I will say this - if you scare the people enough - they will do whatever they are told. Seeing as the average American WON'T put down the gun, doesn't it make sense that the Government needs to find a way to "fool" the people into doing it? I'm not big on American gun laws, but aren't Bill being passed that will cut down on guns in America? It seems like the Government is on the right page. Aren't these Bills based upon the change in America lately? What I'm trying to say is, isn't this whole 9/11/war on Terror/attack against Saddam just a way to keep the people scared? And what big-*** event will have to happen to really scare the people enough that they will put the guns away and behave? Scary thought.

You would agree with me that America is somewhat "out of control", no? When things get too out of control and they are beyond repair, drastic measures have to be taken. Would you say that recent events in America are drastic? I would, that is why it frustrates me to see what I believe is the American people being bullied/scared into giving up their rights and freedoms in the name of "protection". The thing I feel America needs to be protected from the most is their own inability to know when to change.....when to move past how the Country is "supposed" to be.....when to join together and say, "we need to fix things NOW"......and when to hug instead of shoot. If America could just do these things, I gaur-en-DAM-tee Terrorism would stop. Crime would decrease. Fear would lessen and America could once again be beautiful, polite, stress-free and happy. It's not like Americans are ********, they are just stressed the f**k out!!!

I love the concept of America and everything about the American way.....I just wish the citizens would chill out and go with the flow more. Stop bringing up their "individual rights" and start getting together as a Country....a Country that deserves to be safe, happy and together.

What really scares me is the fact that America isn't what it should be. It scares me that a Country so great and powerful is so different than the Country I live in, when it doesn't have to be. You folks down there deserve a medal with what you have to put up with because of the mistakes past Americans have made. There is no need for what you all have to live with everyday.....no need at all and I can't wait for the day when the average American looks at a gun and thinks what I think......"that's a bad invention" or "Lets go dear hunting". You all deserve it!

Maybe you need a Canadian President!!

Jeff (944S Boyeee)

SidViscous

It's a nice thought Jeff but there are fundemental flaws with your position. Criminals don't see law abiding citizens putting down thier guns as a way to go "A hell what a nice guy, I won't rob him" they see it as another oportunity. The biggest flaw in your whole discusion is that people will naturally do the right thing given an oportunity. This is blatantly false. MOst people are good, but a certain amount are not. And most peolpe will take advantage of a given situation, given the ability.

As to getting rid of guns. It aint going to happen, it can't happen, it won't happen. Forget it. It is not going to happen. I can go into any machine shop in america and make a functioning gun in less than a day. Technolgy doesn't go away. The hardest part about making a gun is the ammunition, and the hardest part of the ammunition is the primer. and even that is easy.

To make that point re-read the post form the guy in England. He said that the banning of guns has INCREASED gun crime inhis country.

Has banning drugs reduced the narcotic drug industry?

Every body exposing thier throats and saying please be nice is only going to invite more crime.

I won't disagree with your education comment though. It's definitely true, were not going about it the right way though. Throwing money isn't the answer.

I'll say this about Canada. Most of your people are very decent. (factoring out the Quebecois faux French arrogance). Very nice, and very respecful of others. There is no denying that. And we tend to be arrogant and brash, no denying that.

However think about this for a moment. From adversity comes growth. I'm not saying were better, but rather that we are different. You have a much different lifestyle than we do (not worse different), ours is much more fast paced, difficult and ruthless, we also have a better GNP, more inovation per capita and a host of other things. And I don't think were going to give up being a-holes for a more pacifist lifestyle. Not saying that you guys should change who you are, but rather that I don't think we should either.

SidViscous

And there is no such thing as a bad invention, just a bad application of such invention.

Jeff928S4

Remember Sid that the BackStreet Boys were "invented"!!!

Jeff (944S Boyeee)

SidViscous

Okay, you got me there.

turbo944

While many criminals are dumb, many are not. Consider the car thieves who carry some very sophisticated electronics with them to steal some of these newer cars with their built in and added on alarm and anti-theft systems. If they are after a certain type of car because someone has said they will pay big $$ for it, they will try to steal it regardless. As for the dumb ones, even a deterrent doesn't stop many. Consider this: A group left a car full of gifts on a city street and videotaped to see if anyone would bother this locked car. They recorded it being burglarized several times and once...once there was an officer standing on the corner with the car and the thief told him it was his car and he locked his keys in it. The officer assisted him in opening it up and the thief took off with a bunch of the goods. Sheesh....even a cop standing beside a target will not dissuade some, so having random troops standing on street corners won't do that much to some of these people.

As to the words being spoken here, realize in many cases they are just that. Words. Frustration at having been in a situation and having lost something, material or just being a victim of a vandal. But realize this....I believe that the one biggest thing that people have lost for others is respect. We don't respect our elders anymore, we have con artists trying to take them for all they are worth. We don't respect each other, we have far too many lawyers here. When there is no respect and you are treated that way, you must at times be ready to show people that they owe it to you. Whether it's standing up to the company or person that is trying to shaft you on a part and you post a message about it in a public forum or on the phone with them or writing a letter to their company all the way up to someone pointing a gun at you and trying to take your wallet or your car or even your life. If a criminal is willing to kill you whether you cooperate or not, why would you not be willing to act back to stop him from killing you? Some will kill you before you can even give it up, just because they don't want you to fight back or try to resist.

As for living in fear, I don't think most of us live in fear, but there are many of us who take their security and the security of their family seriously. How do you think crimes happen? Because of lack of security. You are wide open to a thief leaving your door unlocked because you have "felt" safe in the past there. Just because a bank has never been robbed doesn't mean that it's a good idea for them to get rid of all of their security because they feel they are in a "safe" part of town.

There are many things and ways that you can go about protecting your property and the laws vary widely across this country. In Texas from what I have heard, it is legal to use lethal force to protect your property and I've heard of 2 lethal shootings there over property. If I was given that right and someone has no respect for me and my property, I would be willing to use that force if nothing else would dissuade them. At the least even if you let them take your car, your wallet, etc. you are going to spend a LOT of time getting new credit cards, taking a loss on the money you had in it, getting a new license, etc. or with a car, especially like my 944 Turbo which it took me literally years of searching and waiting and saving to get, having to deal with the insurance company and probably getting disrespected there and not getting the value of the car and THEN having to spend all that time again to find another one is insane because someone wanted something you had and took it from you.

As for the "terror" here, police and federal law enforcement goes after that crime daily, but often there is more there than they can deal with because it is another publicly funded service and there are never enough funds to hire as many officers as a city/town/whatever would like. Still, the focus in the end should be to educate and get our children to respect their peers and their parents and others and get rid of crime in that manner. Fighting crime is at the point that it's already happening and you are a reactive force rather than proactive at preventing it in the first place which is far preferable as you have said.

But there are many people who are always willing to take advantage of another. Look at companies taking advantage of employees, look at the person who gets the wrong change back at a store and is given too much and they take it instead of giving back the extra, look at the person who takes the last piece of chicken on the plate without inquiring to see if anyone else might want it. That's not changing and it's part of who we are. Some are much more able to control and deal with that than others, some make it look nice and pretty while they stab you in the back, but others, others do it to your face in the worst way possible and often the actions they take are against the law.

And, although guns are a well known tool for a criminal, there are a great host of other tools that can be used to commit a crime, whether it's a sword, a knife, or even strong arm tactics. Getting rid of guns will not stop crime. Could it slow some of it down, sure...maybe it could. But once they know that no one else has a gun either, it will go right back up as they find other tools. Knives are meant to cut food and prepare and eat food with, but they can also be used to kill....should we get rid of them next? As for drugs, how about Morphine? It is still produced but can cause death in the end. Heck, just about ANY drug can cause death if used improperly. That doesn't stop them from making them for those who do need them. I'd be scared to have health care in your country if I knew that they were just "hoping" that the pain would go away as all of the pain killers were known to kill people who took too many of them and thus they stopped making them, too.

Anyway, behind the exterior I think we are all wanting to be on the same page here, we all don't want to have to fight to protect our property, we'd all love to be able to leave our doors unlocked at night or walk down a deserted street in the projects (why you'd be there I don't know), but unfortunately we live in a world where respect of each other isn't a top priority and there have to be those willing to stand up for you, to stand up for YOUR security and YOUR rights and YOUR safety, even in your country. Those police officers and military personnel are there because there are people out there who would kill you just for looking at them and no amount of education can change their dark and twisted view of the world. Those who protect you are willing to put their lives on the line and to be willing to defend you by taking the life of another (or many) to protect the things and way of life that you have. I applaud your sensibilities and your desire for peace, but many of those around you here have served in the military or have worked for a police force or other security operation. We have been willing to put ourselves on the line for you and your security so that you do feel safe. If we sometimes feel or act in a way that is in those best interests, it is because we want all of us to be safe and we know that not everyone is going to give up their criminal activities just because you ask them to.

SidViscous

Well said

Peckster

"look at the person who takes the last piece of chicken on the plate without inquiring to see if anyone else might want it."

All right, I'm sorry already!

Baron009

I lived in the states for a few years when I was younger and I worked at a hospital in the states for one summer, and from my experience the US is fairly similar to Canada and the majority of people that I met were nice and considerate. There are differencs though, and I would never want to settle in the US. This is just my preference, and I'm not saying that there is anything bad with the US, just that I prefer the 'Canadian lifestlye' or 'Canadain society' if you will. And I'm sure many Americans would prefer living in the US to Canada. So I think essentially everyone has what they want and we're happy, so lets just get back to talking about Porsches.

I still have yet to see what the European lifestyle is like. Maybe I'd like england, or germany, or even italy. I have to visit there sometime.

EDIT: The things I don't like about guns are they make killing too easy. My only combat experience comes from swordfighing, fencing, and some wrestling and even with a sword killing wouldn't be easy. You can parry a blade, but not a bullet. I guess what I mean is firearms make combat really risky. Skill or no skill you can get killed.

SidViscous

Ireland has to be the best place to live in the world.

ilikemy944

There was a shootout about 2 weeks ago across the street from my school... Guy got shot in the head, leg, foot, other guy was lucky, and didn't get hit at all. The first guy wasn't hurt too bad, barely skinned his head. Know what it was about? Who clogged the toilet. Who needs guns?

Travis - sflraver

At least it was over something important and not something silly like road rage.