89magic98

OK, the shop manual says that this is "mounted on bracket for heater - instrument panel (driver's side)".

The radio part of the unit is a simple relay that provides 12v when the ignition switch is active.

Has anyone ever seen this? Can I get at it from underneath, or do I have to take out the cigarette lighter / oil pressure / clock panel?

My radio was not turning on - or doing so intermittently. So, either the connections are bad, or I will have to buy a new/used one of these (or just get another relay for the radio, and bypass the "relay" part of this box). Fuse is not bad, because the clock is still working.

Part number is 944.615.103.00

Thanks for the feedback!

89magic98

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...electr_pg3.htm

Sunroof Relay in Fuse Box, 924S/944 thru 1/85 E-615-103-00 $93.50

$93.50??? WTF???

The sunroof is working just fine.

Granite 944

I just went through this on my '85/1 944. I use the same radio/sunroof relay.
Relay is mounted on the drivers side of the center console, under the dash, under a cover screwed to the console and under the dash. There are two relays here. One is the power window relay and the other the radio/sunroof relay (it actually says radio on the top of it).

Do you have the electrical current flow diagrams for your car? Mine shows power coming into relay from ignition switch at pin R, constant 12v at pin 30, and pin 1 goes to the radio.

Note: On the early 944's, power is turned on to this relay (at pin R) as soon as you put the key into the ignition switch . Key does not have to be turned to the first "accessories" position to get it. I don't know if your car is simular.

My relay was bad. I had power to pin R, and pin 30, but not at pin 1. Once power gets to pin R, power from pin 30 will flow thru to pin 1 if the relay is picking up ok. Yes the sunroof still worked fine on mine also.

Good Luck!

89magic98

Ken,

Tracked down the location without too much of a problem, once I removed the small kick panel under the car.

First I opened the case of the relay/sunroof control unit to look for obvious damage, couldn't find any.

So, I added a generic relay on a separate mounting tab nearby, and tapped off the power/ground/switch signal from the original relay. Then I took the new relay's output and spliced it back into the output of the defective relay. All of this was using those "pill" shaped in-line wire splice pieces, so I could remove this if I ever find one of these control boxes in a junkyard.

My repair is pretty "sound" from an electrical standpoint, and cost me nothing (just time) since I had the spare relay lying around.

It's fun to sort out these problems one at a time!

Thanks for your feedback.

89magic98

Ken,

How did you fix the problem?

Granite 944

I was lucky, I had a working radio relay from a parts car to replace my bad one with.
So you actually added another relay in line with the bad one huh? Sounds pretty inventive to me! Yea, your right these damn relay are expensive!
I've been going thru my car, one electrical gremlin at a time also! It is kinda fun and challenging to figure out whats going on with some of this stuff!
(And it sure helps having all the help and experience of everyone on this board too!)
Good fix! I'm sure you'll find one at a wrecking yard fairly cheap if ya keep looking. I know my local yard sells stuff like that fairly cheap and will take it back or exchange it if it turns out to be no good.

89magic98

I can't tell you how long I "lived" with this problem. One reason was because it took some time for the relay to consistently fail when the car was in the garage (where I could try to diagnose it).

When I opened the cover of this box, you can see why it is an expensive part - the circuitry related to the sunroof is somewhat complicated. But from a design standpoint, it doesn't make sense to mix a solid-state circuit (no moving parts) with a relay circuit (which has electromechanical parts) because one will outlast the other.

I used this type of tap-in (see picture) for the switch signal (R) / switch ground (31) / 12v fused input (30) / output (1). I didn't cut any wires. If the old relay decides to switch, it doesn't really matter - the circuit works. And if I get the relay someday, I can un-do what I did pretty easily.

I got a longer piece of metal that allowed me to mount this relay next to the old control unit box, using the same mounting point.

I should have taken a picture of the finished result.

You are very fortunate to have a parts car, and a good wrecking yard near your home. At a certain point, it does not make sense to put new parts in a 15+ year old car, except for certain items (belts, etc). I have a small list of parts that I watch for on ebay every now and again, just in case they come up for a good price.

As far as the electrical gremlins go, more and more, I'm becoming a fan of soldering and using heat-shring tubing as opposed to butt connectors - it's just more reliable.

When I bought my car, the radio was stolen, so the harness was cut up. I also think I should have gotten a "vanilla" 16 terminal connector (male and female ends) so that I could make a simpler way of installing and removing the radio. In other words, add a new harness to the car's electrical wiring, to make a standard way of connecting the radio. Maybe even use a standard GM/Ford male/female connector set. This way, I could prepare the radio-end of the harness on my workbench, as opposed to in the car.

Thanks for your encouragement!

Granite 944

I couldn't agree more that it really wasn't a good idea to mix the sunroof and radio together in one box!
I meant to ask you, if your car has the accessories position on the ign. key to switch power on to this relay, or is it like mine, where power goes to relay as soon as you insert the key? I know the later 44's went to acc. position, and figured yours probably is set up this way also?
I also agree with the solder and shrink tubing way also! I still need to straighten out the mess of wires behind my radio! I'll take care of this when I eventually put in a CD head unit.

MHT

It's one thing to use those "scotch-lock" connectors inside the car, but do yourself a favor and dont use them where they are exposed to the elements. I refer to them as a bad connection looking for a place to happen, I have spent many hours tracking down and repairing electrical problems caused by connectors such as that.

89magic98

My car has the early dash like yours.

So, the ignition key should be the same as yours, when you insert the key, the power goes the relay.

I had this older Blaupunkt Tuscon cassette unit that was NIB from 1995, that I installed last year. I found a 10 disc CD changer (also NIB from 1995) on ebay for $100, and a power antenna on ebay (hirschmann, black mast, NIB, for $46!). So, I have to add this all in. I also want to connect the dimmer control for the radio into the dash dimmer, and add a console switch so that my antenna can be lowered if the radio is on, but not tuning AM/FM (this is as simple as "interrupting" the standard 12v radio output with a switch).

The nice thing about this radio is that it has a 3.5mm input for "portable" electronics. They probably anticipated using portable CD changer units, but nowadays, this is perfect for a portable MP3 player! So, I am running wire into the armrest casette box and putting a female 3.5mm jack in there.

If I were you, I would make sure that any new radio you buy plays CD-R / CD-R/W discs, and MP3 CDs, and also has a supplemental 3.5mm input for future expansion. Prices have really collapsed for basic car audio equipment, it's amazing what you can get.

89magic98

Couldn't agree with you more on this point.

Soldering-only wherever possible. Always solder in the engine compartment.

But in this case, being able to bypass the existing relay without butchering the wiring made using this connector style very attractive.

luftpirate

Good threads are never too old to resurrect.

I now have a bad "Radio" "944 615 103 00" relay in my early car. I thought about doing the generic relay route after finding out a replacement is 120 dollars. I think this is the route I'm going to go after reading your post. With my luck the 120 dollar or 50 dollar used relay will no doubt burn out again. A generic will be easy and cheap to replace.

Others have just suggested using the cigarette lighter 12v but I don't think its switched and I have a history of head units draining my battery.