That Paint Job.....continued
10-16-2003, 01:03 AM
#91
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Yeah, I'm tired of the legal system. I played their game, by their rules. Now it's time to start sending hookers to his house, and putting ads in the paper saying he is selling a 2002 Corvette for $15k. Oh yeah, don't call til after midnight cause he's on shiftwork.
I just want him to be half as pissed as I have been for a month and a half. I think my $3k+ payment entitles me to that.
I just want him to be half as pissed as I have been for a month and a half. I think my $3k+ payment entitles me to that.
10-16-2003, 10:51 AM
#93
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How about calling the local TV news "Consumer reporter" and have all of this come to light in a truly public forum? It has worked well for people in Atlanta.
Also an anonymous phone call to the EPA would help. They like those. He would have to show proof of proper disposal procedures. (Bondo dust, and paint cans are hazardous materials.)
Also an anonymous phone call to the EPA would help. They like those. He would have to show proof of proper disposal procedures. (Bondo dust, and paint cans are hazardous materials.)
10-16-2003, 11:09 AM
#94
Hey Rob, does that mean you have your car back now?
10-16-2003, 11:35 AM
#95
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No, I do not. Hopefully, I will get it this afternoon when I meet him at the courthouse to get my receipt and give him his check. After I have both of those, I'll be filing a 1096 and a 1099 to get the ball rolling on f*****g up his life.
10-16-2003, 11:45 AM
#97
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Rob:
I am sure the IRS would love to know about his cash only, under the table business. Plus, the county he lives in probably has a rule about having bodyshop business on a lot zoned as residential. His property records are public record. Look it up and report him. Or have someone not directly involved in your situation do it, so it doesn't look like revenge.
Also, I am sure the state would be very interested in speaking to this jack off about his disposal of the waste produced. My mechanic told me one of the reasons he sold his bodyshop were all the state fees he had to pay related to the environmental and disposal concerns. Plus, I think they even regulate how the paint booth is set up and how the paint fumes are ventilated. I bet there are at least a dozen rules and regulations that he is not adhering to.
Others have suggested calling a local TV station. Might not be a bad idea. I do anything within the legal limits to stick it to this clown. I'd also have a body/paint man inspect the car when you take it off his property. Bring a camera. It would also be nice to have a police officer there if possible. At least make sure you bring several witnesses along.
Definately don't give him a dime without getting a receipt. You could pay him, and he could turn around and say you never did.
I am sure the IRS would love to know about his cash only, under the table business. Plus, the county he lives in probably has a rule about having bodyshop business on a lot zoned as residential. His property records are public record. Look it up and report him. Or have someone not directly involved in your situation do it, so it doesn't look like revenge.
Also, I am sure the state would be very interested in speaking to this jack off about his disposal of the waste produced. My mechanic told me one of the reasons he sold his bodyshop were all the state fees he had to pay related to the environmental and disposal concerns. Plus, I think they even regulate how the paint booth is set up and how the paint fumes are ventilated. I bet there are at least a dozen rules and regulations that he is not adhering to.
Others have suggested calling a local TV station. Might not be a bad idea. I do anything within the legal limits to stick it to this clown. I'd also have a body/paint man inspect the car when you take it off his property. Bring a camera. It would also be nice to have a police officer there if possible. At least make sure you bring several witnesses along.
Definately don't give him a dime without getting a receipt. You could pay him, and he could turn around and say you never did.
10-16-2003, 12:52 PM
#98
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Why the legal system dont always work (long)
Sorry about the final outcome Rob. I guess I commend you for going thru the legal channels on this, but in reality I am not suprised the verdict ended up this way. I am by NO MEANS saying that to make you feel bad. I truly do sympathize with you. But I am simply trying to make some sense of why the legal system "failed you".
Bottom line is that for individuals or organizations without a conscience sufficient to keep them from blatantly lying under oath, the level of proof gets extremely difficult for those of us that are used to playing by the rules and have a problem with acting in a morally corrupt manner.
I am not an attorney, but a good deal of my work involves contract interpretation and negotiation in the corporate sector. In the many lawsuits I have been involved with, it is amazing the deceit that occurs even within Fortune 100 companies (where its not really the people involved's "own" money. Luckily, corps this size also have a bad (or good, depending on your pov) habit of keeping very good documentation of things, and their employees make a bad habit of putting things in emails they shouldn't. At this level, the only way to get to the truth of the matter is to spend $100k's in legal fees to dig thru the corporate archives to find the few pieces of damning evidence. This $$ can be rationalized when you are arguing over $10's or $100's of millions and there is a formal entity you are fighting. In the situations us car owners find ourselves in, this is most often not the case.
An amazing example is a suit I am involved with where a Fortune 10 Japanese company delivered a faulty $75mm piece of machinery. The head of their US business (one of the highest non-Japanese executive in the whole company) sat in a room with me, looked me in the eye, and said "we evaluated the product, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it". I knew they are wrong, witheld payment, and got sued for $50MM. Thru discovery ($hundreds of thousands in legal fees) we find emails from his engineering department to him prior to my meeting where his own techs say "the product is completely f-ed up".
We never would have found this admittance of a problem, and they would have had a good chance of winning the lawsuit had we not found those emails. But it took lots of time and much $$. Taking this much time and $$ is not something an individual can do realistically.
SO why the long story??
Because, when you are dealing with a counterpart in a legal proceeding that is willing to lie or do what ever it takes (Sunday lunch with mom?) , the courts in many cases will fail you, unless you have some irrefutable evidence other that his word vs yours. This can be either a local yokel or one of the 10 largest corporations in the world. You need to consider this when you get into a dispute.
This ****-clown showed from the very beginning he had no problem making outrageous, bold-faces lies. It should have been a tip off that the formal channels would likely not work. This is something we should ALL keep in mind for the future. Not that violence is the way to do it either, but strategies to get the counterpart in a sticky situation, gain some leverage back from him, and get what you are rightlfully owed without you breaking any laws (that could be proved, anyway).
How about one of female friends at work claiming he groped her in the coffee room, saying that "he proved in court with her buddy that he can get away with anything he wants". She can say she is thinking of suing the company for a hostile work environment. When they ask how else they could settle it, she could offer up "I guess you could make sure **** clown never does it to me again by firing him"..........you just have to make sure it doesn't look like revenge, but instead him feeling empowered by the verdict to become even more morally corrupt.
Paybacks are a bitch
You may be a great boxer, but that don't help in a street fight with knives and guns.
Again, sorry about the outcome Rob. But all you can do is get the car back and then make his life hell. I would SERIOUSLY consider doing your best to get his **** fired from work. Remember, your word against his can sometimes work to YOUR benefit too if you have the right leverage.
Bottom line is that for individuals or organizations without a conscience sufficient to keep them from blatantly lying under oath, the level of proof gets extremely difficult for those of us that are used to playing by the rules and have a problem with acting in a morally corrupt manner.
I am not an attorney, but a good deal of my work involves contract interpretation and negotiation in the corporate sector. In the many lawsuits I have been involved with, it is amazing the deceit that occurs even within Fortune 100 companies (where its not really the people involved's "own" money. Luckily, corps this size also have a bad (or good, depending on your pov) habit of keeping very good documentation of things, and their employees make a bad habit of putting things in emails they shouldn't. At this level, the only way to get to the truth of the matter is to spend $100k's in legal fees to dig thru the corporate archives to find the few pieces of damning evidence. This $$ can be rationalized when you are arguing over $10's or $100's of millions and there is a formal entity you are fighting. In the situations us car owners find ourselves in, this is most often not the case.
An amazing example is a suit I am involved with where a Fortune 10 Japanese company delivered a faulty $75mm piece of machinery. The head of their US business (one of the highest non-Japanese executive in the whole company) sat in a room with me, looked me in the eye, and said "we evaluated the product, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it". I knew they are wrong, witheld payment, and got sued for $50MM. Thru discovery ($hundreds of thousands in legal fees) we find emails from his engineering department to him prior to my meeting where his own techs say "the product is completely f-ed up".
We never would have found this admittance of a problem, and they would have had a good chance of winning the lawsuit had we not found those emails. But it took lots of time and much $$. Taking this much time and $$ is not something an individual can do realistically.
SO why the long story??
Because, when you are dealing with a counterpart in a legal proceeding that is willing to lie or do what ever it takes (Sunday lunch with mom?) , the courts in many cases will fail you, unless you have some irrefutable evidence other that his word vs yours. This can be either a local yokel or one of the 10 largest corporations in the world. You need to consider this when you get into a dispute.
This ****-clown showed from the very beginning he had no problem making outrageous, bold-faces lies. It should have been a tip off that the formal channels would likely not work. This is something we should ALL keep in mind for the future. Not that violence is the way to do it either, but strategies to get the counterpart in a sticky situation, gain some leverage back from him, and get what you are rightlfully owed without you breaking any laws (that could be proved, anyway).
How about one of female friends at work claiming he groped her in the coffee room, saying that "he proved in court with her buddy that he can get away with anything he wants". She can say she is thinking of suing the company for a hostile work environment. When they ask how else they could settle it, she could offer up "I guess you could make sure **** clown never does it to me again by firing him"..........you just have to make sure it doesn't look like revenge, but instead him feeling empowered by the verdict to become even more morally corrupt.
Paybacks are a bitch
You may be a great boxer, but that don't help in a street fight with knives and guns.
Again, sorry about the outcome Rob. But all you can do is get the car back and then make his life hell. I would SERIOUSLY consider doing your best to get his **** fired from work. Remember, your word against his can sometimes work to YOUR benefit too if you have the right leverage.
10-16-2003, 01:09 PM
#99
Someone suggested calling the EPA, that is the best idea here. They LOVE to write citations. It may not help you BUT you might sleep better knowing that the EPA got your money and not him. I got a citation for illegal dumping once (for washing out my shop floor next to a dry cleaner that really WAS dumping chemicals in the lot) it was totally bogus but fighting it cost more than paying it (500 bucks by the way and I actually had permits). In his case there are so many violations there (I am sure he doesnt have the proper paperwork since he is likely, illegally operation a commercial business on his property, zoned for residential) you might take a lot more from him than you think.
Dont lose faith in the legal system - it works MOST of the time.
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Dont lose faith in the legal system - it works MOST of the time.
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Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
10-16-2003, 01:16 PM
#100
Administrator - "Tyson"
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I think I suggested this before, if not here goes.
Go to an adult bookstore. Grab every subscription card from every mag (especially the "alternative lifestyle" ones) fill them out in his name but put his neighbors address's. Just wait until his neighbor gets 20+ **** mags in his name delivered to their address. Send some to him as well just for fun. He'll have a hell of a time getting his name and address off those mailing lists.
Also call every siding and window installer shop in the area. Tell them you are him and you need an estimate at his address.
Go to an adult bookstore. Grab every subscription card from every mag (especially the "alternative lifestyle" ones) fill them out in his name but put his neighbors address's. Just wait until his neighbor gets 20+ **** mags in his name delivered to their address. Send some to him as well just for fun. He'll have a hell of a time getting his name and address off those mailing lists.
Also call every siding and window installer shop in the area. Tell them you are him and you need an estimate at his address.
10-16-2003, 01:19 PM
#101
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This is probably late advice...
I'd either take a lawyer with me to pick up the car and witness payment and condition of car, or ask a cop to accompany me because I suspected an altercation was a possibility due to the prior behaviour of the shop owner.
If the court was involved, read the decision carefully and if you were ORDERED to pay a certain amount, then I would think his refusal to give a receipt would be contempt of court since the payment has been required by the court order.
Just my opinion...
Jim 1987 944S
I'd either take a lawyer with me to pick up the car and witness payment and condition of car, or ask a cop to accompany me because I suspected an altercation was a possibility due to the prior behaviour of the shop owner.
If the court was involved, read the decision carefully and if you were ORDERED to pay a certain amount, then I would think his refusal to give a receipt would be contempt of court since the payment has been required by the court order.
Just my opinion...
Jim 1987 944S
10-16-2003, 05:51 PM
#102
Racer
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10-17-2003, 11:54 AM
#103
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Re: Why the legal system dont always work (long)
Originally posted by txhedg
I truly do sympathize with you. But I am simply trying to make some sense of why the legal system "failed you".
.
I truly do sympathize with you. But I am simply trying to make some sense of why the legal system "failed you".
.
