Tom R.

John,
Will you post this as a sticky for a while please. edit - Thanks John!

As many know my 944S2 was stolen last week. In September '00 i bought the car from a dealer, and within a month put another $3,000 into it for clutch, belts, etc. My car was in the shop all this past June and into July and had an in chassis motor rebuild. I spent $6,000 for the motor, head, etc. that was 1,500 miles before it was stolen. Total investment is a bit over $26,000 and i put 18,000 miles on the car.

Now here is where I need your help. Geico uses a company CCC to value their cars. They don't know an Acura Legend 4 door from a Legend Coupe. I know, they told me they were the same five years ago when my Legend Coupe was stolen. Because the Coupe was/is worth significantly more than the sedan, and is a very different car, I don't think they will now know the difference between a 944, 944S, 944S2, or 951.

I am going to pay for a formal appraisal, and need to build a database for the appraiser. Will all owners/sellers of 944S2, and 951s 1987 and newer to tell me what you paid for or sold your car for. I need actual sale information from people that bought their cars in the last year or so. I need details like the following:

Year
Model
Mileage
Title - clear, salvage, etc
Price paid/sold for
Condition of exterior:
Paint
New Paint?
Prior accident history
Quality of Bodywork (both the cars, and repairs)
Condition of tires
Condition of wheels - curb rash etc.
Condition of glass
Anything else to increase or decrease the value, and the value placed on it.

Condition of Interior:
Seats
Rips, leather, 4/8/12 way driver and passenger
Carpets
Dash cracks
Shift boot
Radio original, aftermarket - details
Spare (ever used) toolkit, sunroof bag, latex gloves, air pump, etc.
Anything else to increase or decrease the value, and value placed

Condition of Mechanicals:
Motor work - what, when etc.
Belts - age and mileage
Water pump - age and mileage
Alternator - mileage
Clutch - age and mileage
Shocks - age, mileage, condition
Suspension - Ball joints, etc age, mileage, condition
Brakes - condition
Air conditioner - converted? cold? works? etc

I spoke with an appraiser today. He will prepare an appraisal but because of the limited production of the S2 needs comparables. The more information my Rennlist brothers (and sisters) give me, the easier it is for him to arrive at a proper value.

My GEICO claims adjuster told me my car was too nice to park at the train, almost inferring it is my fault the car was stolen. I didn't want to showl herher ignorance by asking if the Lexus, Audi, Grand Cherokee, etc. parked next to my car with a value significantly more than my S2 belonged at the train.

If you don't want to bear your soul on a public forum please send me a PM with the information. I guarantee your anonimity.

Thanks to all, I appreciate this from the bottom of my heart, and wallet.

MartinT

Tom,

Just a thought, I think I remember somewhere that PCA do valuations on P-cars based on the model. I think the values they give are very favourable and have been used for insurance purposes before.

Just the 2cents that was floating around in my mind....

Martin

Tom R.

Martin,
the paperwork was emailed to PCA last week. Noting like a ASA certified appraiser though. Except in my office where they say the courses and certificates I have (along with my CPA) in valuation dont contribute to my job.

BTW I just valued a $25 million company as part of my job as an attorney!

Ag951

Check out the black book value. It's in the neighborhood of $20k for S2s.
I'd give you the info for my purchase, but I got such a great deal it would hurt your cause.

And a suggestion to everyone: DON'T USE GEICO!!!! They're not any less expensive than most companies, and they're not worth it.

Randy_J

Tom, post a direct email - even a temporary Hotmail - we can send your form as Excel SS and back it up with photos.

Good idea to get this info for your appraiser. Maybe an additional line on LOCATION of the car, as the market does require adjustment, and the other side will want to know this.

I've got stats on all 3 p-cars for your database

Matt H

Tom there is a lot here but I will give it a shot. Might not help you though:

1987
Porsche 944 turbo
2 Door Coupe w/ sunroof
194K miles
Clear CA Title
3900 selling price

Exterior:
Good condition
Small dent on passenger fender PDR repair about 300 dollars
Paint is good
Previous body damage is evident and body work overall is not great (I am **** though, and most would not notice)
Tires no good at all
Wheels - Stock 16" Pd's in poor condition little rash but terrible finish (sold them, hated them)
Glass is all stock and in excellent condition
Evidence of Lojack and Hands free cellular device, both poorly removed (by my standards) Probably of no value.

Interior:
Overall - Excellent
One small tear (1/2 inch) on passenger seat
4 Way power Drivers (dont know about passenger didnt check)
Carpet is excellent
Dash has one small crack no more than 4" in length
Shift boot is in good condition
Radio is stock Blaupunkt unit in working condition (at least for now)
Spare is present and shows signs of use, maybe once tire looks new but lugs holes have paint missing
Tool kit is all present and in good condition

Mechanicals:
Engine is stock with very high mileage
Was a daily driver until I decided to remove engine to clean and fix oil leak
Belts and waterpump recently done (no more than 5K, balance shaft is VERY LOOSE, time for re-tension)
Clutch worn
Shocks/Struts OE and very bad, rear shocks appear to be collapsed
BJ's etc in good condition, passenger control arm will need new caster blocks from being oil soaked as will sway bar need new bushings
Brakes have nearly new Hawk pads and make a tremendous amount of noise, rotors look to need replacing
A/C not working has NO freon and appears to have been working prior to shipment (i.e. I think someone vaccuumed it before they sold it to me)
This car has significant oil leaks from rear main and cam tower. Approximate roughly 2K dollars to repair if done at a Porsche dealer. A/C has not been checked but could run as much as 1500 dollars to repair at a shop. New struts/shocks about 1200 installed including alignment. Transmission is leaking from trans cooler lines. Not bad but is has been doing it quite some time.

This is only the problems I would list, it needs vaccuum hose repair as well as other minor issues. As good as this car is, with no mechanical issues I would have paid close to double less 10% for mileage adjustment.

Good luck, let me know if I can get you pictures, There is no hood on the car right now and it is mostly apart but I have a few that give a pretty good picture. BTW, thanks it was good for me to do that, reminds me how much I have until it is perfect!
One last thing, on your next car, spell out a settlement amount first, I have this car insured for almost 10K. Cost me an extra 3 dollars per month.
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pete944

I'll get you my info tomorrow, Tom.

Lets keep this thread at the top.

keith

GEICO is SO criminal that I wouldn't use them if they were paying me to do so. Serious.

MachSchnell

True that, same problem with Progressive, only Prog is worse with their mobile morons telling you it's just cosmetic damage. I see more people fighting Progressive on payments/settlements than anything...it takes an act of God to cause frame damage or suspension damage on a Progressive insured car! I'm lucky, I can use USAA which is without a doubt the best, though State Farm gets huge props in my experience.

Randy_J

Well, sounds like we have SOME things that are better in the GWN (great white north aka Canada) - we've got basic govn't insurance in BC that actually works for most part, but optional private insurance for extra coverage. The private insurers really try harder here, as they can cherry pick the clientele.

I've had exceptional service from CDI in BC, everything from windshield claims to getting fleet rates on the 6 cars I have with them. Plus all the changes when I rotate the fleet on and off season or buy and sell.

Ag951

No government insurance program is as cost effective as a private one (Canadian socialized medicine and US social security are two good examples). If you take financial accountability and vested self interest out of the equation, services suck.
Those two insurance companies are examples of crappy companies that prey on those who can't get car insurance elsewhere (like that Canadian Neon driver, once 44mag gets through with her). Good american companies (like USAA, state farm, or farmers) provide a good service and don't try to cheat their clients.
I just got a check for $1100 today from state farm for the diminished value caused to my other car, when a state farm client side swiped my Acura. I didn't have to hassle or sue. Just file a claim, sign a waiver, and get a check (turbo cup sways or racing seat and harness or both...hmm...).

Dan Gallagher

i p.m. you info from my 87 951

Eyal 951

My 1987 944 Turbo info, hope it helps...

Mileage: 117,000
Title - clear, salvage, etc: clear
Price paid/sold for: $9000
Condition of exterior: 9/10
Paint black 8/10
New Paint? no
Prior accident history: none
Quality of Bodywork (both the cars, and repairs) none completed
Condition of tires: worn, needs replacement soon
Condition of wheels - 9/10
Condition of glass - 10/10
Anything else to increase or decrease the value, and the value placed on it. none.

Condition of Interior: 9.5/10
Seats 9/10
Rips, leather, 4/8/12 way driver and passenger: 4 way driver
Carpets 8/10
Dash cracks. 8/10
Shift boot 8/10
Radio original, aftermarket - details aftermarket Pioneer single disc CD
Spare (ever used) toolkit, sunroof bag, latex gloves, air pump, etc.: missing air pump, and possibly latex gloves, everything else there, including origonal sunroof case
Anything else to increase or decrease the value, and value placed

Condition of Mechanicals: 8.5/10
Motor work - what, when etc. usual maintainence for 117,000 (sorry dont have my info here at college)
Belts - age and mileage 10,000K 6-12 month
Water pump - age and mileage 10,000K 6-12 month
Alternator - mileage origional
Clutch - age and mileage 26,000k on new, 2 years
Shocks - age, mileage, condition origional
Suspension - Ball joints, etc age, mileage, condition half origional have replaced
Brakes - condition: good
Air conditioner - converted? cold? works? etc Amazingly cold, NON converted

hope it helps

Luis de Prat

If the folks at CCC can't tell the difference between a Legend 4-door and a Legend Coupe, they may accept all 944S2 cars as equal and you can lump in the resale values of the cabriolets, which are significantly higher than the coupes'. Just a thought!

In that case, I paid $14,750 for my 1990 944S2 (cabrio) with 118K miles back in 1999. Bought it from a VW dealer with a clear title and very little records but I was able to verify its history with local mechanics. The car had decent original paint, but it needed a new convertible top (not your case, I know), tires, and was due for a full-blown timing/balance belt job including water pump.

AndyK

Unfortunately Tom, most of us pay less, then get stuck putting money in after purchase. So, the sale prices wont really help you as much as a good looking PCA appraisal will! The book values on our cars is really low--hey, they ARE 15-year-old cars after all. It's the after purchase money that jacks the cost up to modern car value levels! Too bad Geico doesn't take that into account.

People should post what they have SPENT on their cars (including purchase price) to get them working. Those are the figures you need an appraisor to see!