ok, autocrossing tires, can i get some cheap?
09-07-2003, 07:39 PM
#1
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ok, autocrossing tires, can i get some cheap?
well, i have done my second autocross. this one was a much bigger lot, and speeds were much higher then my first one. my first observation:
all-weather tires suck. i really don't like driving like i'm on an icy road, and i'm not very competitive. i know the car has got the ***** to hang with the fast cars, but every turn my car fishtails like no ones business. slalom? yup fishtail. straights? yup tires still slip. so i have come to the conclusion that i need to pick up some better tires.
if anyone has some used tires that can go a few more races that would be great! basically i'm just getting a feel for what i need to do to be competitive, so i don't want to drop 1000 dollars in tires, if i decide to get bigger/smaller rims.
the rims i have are the stock phones 16".
if anyone knows of a set of cheap racing tires (slicks or road legal) let me know! if the price is right i will be one happy autocrosser=).
otherwise, what tires should i be looking for new? will slicks be to much money for an autocross car? or should i spring for some A-032R's when i decide what rims to get...
any help would be greatly appreciated!
all-weather tires suck. i really don't like driving like i'm on an icy road, and i'm not very competitive. i know the car has got the ***** to hang with the fast cars, but every turn my car fishtails like no ones business. slalom? yup fishtail. straights? yup tires still slip. so i have come to the conclusion that i need to pick up some better tires.
if anyone has some used tires that can go a few more races that would be great! basically i'm just getting a feel for what i need to do to be competitive, so i don't want to drop 1000 dollars in tires, if i decide to get bigger/smaller rims.
the rims i have are the stock phones 16".
if anyone knows of a set of cheap racing tires (slicks or road legal) let me know! if the price is right i will be one happy autocrosser=).
otherwise, what tires should i be looking for new? will slicks be to much money for an autocross car? or should i spring for some A-032R's when i decide what rims to get...
any help would be greatly appreciated!
09-07-2003, 08:19 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
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I use kuhmo ecsta mx 225/50/16 on each corner, and they grip phenomenally better than the michelin pilot all-weather tires the PO had on it.
I was also thinking about Yokohama AVS Sports
Front: 225/50-16 Price: $122
Rear: 245/45-16 Price: $130
Here's the tirerack link for the Yokos.
I was also thinking about Yokohama AVS Sports
Front: 225/50-16 Price: $122
Rear: 245/45-16 Price: $130
Here's the tirerack link for the Yokos.
09-07-2003, 09:22 PM
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Kevin, just playing a little devils advocate here, but just looking at your mods listed in your sig, you can't run stock, or even street prepare or prepared for that matter, at least in SCCA events. You might want to look at the rule book before you sink a lot of money into tires.
Having said that we have had very good results using the Kumho V700 Victoracers. You *can* drive them on the street, but thier life expectancy goes way down. For a dual purpose tire the Kumho Ecsta is also good.
Randy
Having said that we have had very good results using the Kumho V700 Victoracers. You *can* drive them on the street, but thier life expectancy goes way down. For a dual purpose tire the Kumho Ecsta is also good.
Randy
09-07-2003, 11:54 PM
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GTZ: yeah i know that i am not in stock, or prepared. today i was racing Street mod 2 against the likes of a turbo miata (fast car, slow drivers) and a totally preped 914 with a 2.7L 911 engine. not to mention the hoosiers...
iswanie: the tires i am running right now are yokohama avid V4 tires they are V rated and are 205/55R16 and 225/50R16 in the back. not very good at all for the track/autocrossing.
The reason i want used tires is so that i wont have to spend a fortune. maybe someone has a set that they would normally not use for another competitve race, and don't want anymore. when i get an idea of what tire tread, brand, and size i want, then i will spend what ever is nessisary.
just an idea, do any tire places let you test tires? that would be ideal...
honestly, i had no idea that i would actually be racing the car. i got the tires a few years ago when it wasn't running that well, thinking i would need it as a daily driver. well things changed... got a VW GTI for free, and got a new engine with much more power, and i can now use it as a race car if i want (not quite ready to stip the interior yet... maybe next year when i'm done with school).
iswanie: the tires i am running right now are yokohama avid V4 tires they are V rated and are 205/55R16 and 225/50R16 in the back. not very good at all for the track/autocrossing.
The reason i want used tires is so that i wont have to spend a fortune. maybe someone has a set that they would normally not use for another competitve race, and don't want anymore. when i get an idea of what tire tread, brand, and size i want, then i will spend what ever is nessisary.
just an idea, do any tire places let you test tires? that would be ideal...
honestly, i had no idea that i would actually be racing the car. i got the tires a few years ago when it wasn't running that well, thinking i would need it as a daily driver. well things changed... got a VW GTI for free, and got a new engine with much more power, and i can now use it as a race car if i want (not quite ready to stip the interior yet... maybe next year when i'm done with school).
09-08-2003, 12:49 AM
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kevin,
are you in the PCA? Go to one of their autocrosses, and see if any of the 944 owners are selling their old tires. Many people will sell used tires dirt cheap.
If you run Rs, you'll probably need a second set of rims, or you'll be changing tires every 1000 miles.
But if you do go for Rs, check out the Victoracer V700: not as good as a Hoosier, but cheaper and longer lived.
are you in the PCA? Go to one of their autocrosses, and see if any of the 944 owners are selling their old tires. Many people will sell used tires dirt cheap.
If you run Rs, you'll probably need a second set of rims, or you'll be changing tires every 1000 miles.
But if you do go for Rs, check out the Victoracer V700: not as good as a Hoosier, but cheaper and longer lived.
09-08-2003, 11:12 AM
#7
Race Director
Kevin: IMHO, stay away from track tires for now! You say you've attended 2 autocrosses so far? Going to R-compounds now is too early!
Work on improving the driver first. If you get the opportunity, have an experienced driver take your car out, on your stinky all-weathers. You will be surprised by how much more the car has to offer!
Staying with street rubber will help you be smooth and consistent. R-compound tires hide all your mistakes, and you'll develop bad habits early on.
I waited until my 4th season of autocrossing before I went to R-compounds.
That said, I think a good performance street tire would be a good step up for you. I like the Potenza's and the Michelin Pilot Sports (not the Pilot Sport Cups: they are track tires, and don't do very well at autocrosses). I'd stay away from Dunlop SP8000's, even though I ran with them for a season quite consistently.
Avoid the temptation of upgrading your car before you are ready! Learn to extract the most out of your car the way it is set up now. If you drive smoother, I bet your fish-tailing issues will be resolved.
Just my $0.42,
-Zoltan.
Work on improving the driver first. If you get the opportunity, have an experienced driver take your car out, on your stinky all-weathers. You will be surprised by how much more the car has to offer!
Staying with street rubber will help you be smooth and consistent. R-compound tires hide all your mistakes, and you'll develop bad habits early on.
I waited until my 4th season of autocrossing before I went to R-compounds.
That said, I think a good performance street tire would be a good step up for you. I like the Potenza's and the Michelin Pilot Sports (not the Pilot Sport Cups: they are track tires, and don't do very well at autocrosses). I'd stay away from Dunlop SP8000's, even though I ran with them for a season quite consistently.
Avoid the temptation of upgrading your car before you are ready! Learn to extract the most out of your car the way it is set up now. If you drive smoother, I bet your fish-tailing issues will be resolved.
Just my $0.42,
-Zoltan.
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09-08-2003, 11:46 AM
#8
Rennlist Member
If you are going with a performance street tire, I agree with Z-man on the Potenza's. I have run the RE730s and RE750s on my autoX / daily driver (GT Mustang, F Stock, recently sold) for the last few years. Not all that competitive against the R compound guys, but fun none-the-less. I still have 730s on my 951 ... love the tire.
09-08-2003, 11:56 AM
#9
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Gonna be hard to find the 730's, they don't make them no more. (I have a fresh set on my 951) Best tires I have ever had.
I ran on some Kumhos yesterday, and until I got them hot (3rd run, 4 or 5 min cooldown between) they were pretty greasy. I agree, stay away from R compound or slicks, go with good street tires until you have run times that are consistant for each run, and no mistakes.
I ran on some Kumhos yesterday, and until I got them hot (3rd run, 4 or 5 min cooldown between) they were pretty greasy. I agree, stay away from R compound or slicks, go with good street tires until you have run times that are consistant for each run, and no mistakes.
09-08-2003, 12:14 PM
#11
Race Director
Velvet 951: I used SP8000's last year for street, autox, and track (DE) driving. Tire sizes were: 225/50-16's front, 245/45-16's rear. Started with brand new rubber.
The car handled well (mostly stock 944S2), and the tires did a nice job of giving me warning before they'd reach their limits of adhesion. I did wear though them in a season though. (6 autox events, and 12 track days!)
Early THIS season, I switched over to used Potenza RE730s for my street tires (205/55-16 front, 225/50-16 rear) when I went to R-compounds for track and autox. I actually ran with the Potenza's for two autocrosses in the beginning of the season, and I found they actually seemed to have more grip than the SP8000's, even though they were narrower!
Based on my experience with the SP8000's vs. the Potenza RE730's, I won't get SP8000's again.
Just my own little unscientific field experience,
-Z.
The car handled well (mostly stock 944S2), and the tires did a nice job of giving me warning before they'd reach their limits of adhesion. I did wear though them in a season though. (6 autox events, and 12 track days!)
Early THIS season, I switched over to used Potenza RE730s for my street tires (205/55-16 front, 225/50-16 rear) when I went to R-compounds for track and autox. I actually ran with the Potenza's for two autocrosses in the beginning of the season, and I found they actually seemed to have more grip than the SP8000's, even though they were narrower!
Based on my experience with the SP8000's vs. the Potenza RE730's, I won't get SP8000's again.
Just my own little unscientific field experience,
-Z.
09-08-2003, 12:34 PM
#12
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I also vote for the RE730's as I run them for the street and just ran 2 autoX's this weekend. Still not too competitive against R-compounds but fun none the less. I think SO3's would be a good all around tire too.
HTH
Jason
HTH
Jason
09-08-2003, 01:31 PM
#13
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Kevin,
Once again check the rules, because IIRC R compound tires are not allowed in SM. There have been some people that are running the Azenis (sorry can't remember who makes them) and have been very happy with them. But the down side is they aren't making them in all sizes, and I'm not sure about the P-car sizes.
Randy
Once again check the rules, because IIRC R compound tires are not allowed in SM. There have been some people that are running the Azenis (sorry can't remember who makes them) and have been very happy with them. But the down side is they aren't making them in all sizes, and I'm not sure about the P-car sizes.
Randy
09-08-2003, 02:15 PM
#14
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GTZ, Azenis are a Falken tire. It's the best street tire I've ever seen, which is why they dominate autocross street classes. They make a 205/55-16 and a 215/?-16, but the 215 is a larger overall diameter. Those are their only 16"s.
Also, you can run Rs in SCCA SM/SM2. It would be in SM Open, or a local class like AZ's "Sportsman" class. We also have local classes for street tires: ST1, ST2, and ST3, where you use your open pax modifier, but compete against other similar class cars on street tires.
Z-man, there are some tires that are just so bad, an expert can't even get a good time on them. I had some on my 951 when I bought it. I dropped over 5 seconds by going to the Kuhmo MX. You're right about a novice on Rs. Also, it's just too much money!
Kevin, check your local autocrossing groups to see if they have instructional days. That's where you'll really improve your driving. Until you're really competitive, just get a set of good street tires. Where are you? If you live in the desert, you can get a tire like the MX that has great dry traction, but crappy wet traction and not worry about it. If you drive in the rain, something like the Bridgestone S-03 is probably a better choice.
Also, you can run Rs in SCCA SM/SM2. It would be in SM Open, or a local class like AZ's "Sportsman" class. We also have local classes for street tires: ST1, ST2, and ST3, where you use your open pax modifier, but compete against other similar class cars on street tires.
Z-man, there are some tires that are just so bad, an expert can't even get a good time on them. I had some on my 951 when I bought it. I dropped over 5 seconds by going to the Kuhmo MX. You're right about a novice on Rs. Also, it's just too much money!
Kevin, check your local autocrossing groups to see if they have instructional days. That's where you'll really improve your driving. Until you're really competitive, just get a set of good street tires. Where are you? If you live in the desert, you can get a tire like the MX that has great dry traction, but crappy wet traction and not worry about it. If you drive in the rain, something like the Bridgestone S-03 is probably a better choice.
