V2Rocket

in the late blocks there are no differences other than those you described, but the oil cooler setup from the turbo will work on an NA/S block and the oiling provision can be plugged/drilled on either version.

sometime in 1985MY (even before the "85.5 switch") they switched to late-style blocks (my early 85 car has a late-style engine as factory fitment).

the 85.5-ish+ block and the 1986 blocks use the same style eccentric timing belt tensioner (better IMO) than the later style spring arm tensioner from the 1987-1991 engines.

pkt1213

The oil cooler is just a different plate attached to the block. Put a turbo oil cooler on my NA with one.

fwb42

Ish, If you check UK944 posting he has a 2.7 head for sale today.

Ish_944

EDIT: Would the 2.5 downpipes fit on the 2.7 head?

Thanks, I've seen that but it is very expensive. That was my previous point:
3l block + 2.7l head = $$$ compared to a normal 2.5l (About 3 times the price). I've seen a 3l crank for 200 euros or so, but the problem is the total build cost. Remember that I need to get a complete engine, full rebuild kit, new silicon hoses, complete electronics (augtronic), new injectors and of course the parts for the hybrid stroker including machine work.
I will do a summary post of everything over the weekend. Or at least I'll try to.
(I probably should go for new fuel lines and fpr & damper as well.)

I know, I've been thinking about it, too!
Has anybody tried the "sandwich plate" approach? Mopar makes this where you put the plate in between the oil filter and its housing and then you attach an extra radiator to it. They also have a version with a built-in thermostat.

Ish_944

You're right. Also thanks for reassuring me!
The question still stands, though, whether I should really go for a late-style (or turbo) block because of the cylinder wall thickness or would an early one be OK, too? I've got a good option on an '83 engine.

Interesting info, thx!

V2Rocket

Sandwich plate I've seen on some racecar 944s before, works the same but has the benefit over the 951 setup that you can choose any cooler you want (and almost any oil cooler would be better than the stock 951 unit).

Also..

If you have found a 3.0L crankshaft in good shape for 200Euro, I might consider buying it from you and shipping it here.

blown 944

It's not necessary to go with the late block, just adds more aluminum to begin with. The coolant sensors are also different. I think there is also a difference in the oil galleys

Ish_944

So it's been a long time but finally my engine is coming together.

It's not a hybrid stroker -strictly speaking- because I couldn't get a shop to do the offset grind. They all are like: ****, it's gonna break!

Instead I got a 3l crank. We still bored and dry-sleeved the cylinders and used 4" Chevy pistons with custom Pauter rods (4mm shorter and Chevy pin size). We started with a late block. At the end, it's 2.85l of displacement. That's half a 5.7

We also added:
- oil pan baffle
- reinforced pick-up tube
- windage ports as LR calls them
- Cometic MLS head gasket
- turbo valve springs (had them already in the old head)
- road race cam from Augment Automotive
- turbo injectors
- new injector harness
- Augtronic replacing the afm and the rest of the engine control
- lambda sensor for closed-loop operation
- external oil cooler using the sandwich plate
- harmonic balancer from a 3l car
- 3l water pump (by accident)
- ceramic coated headers & y-pipe (already had them)
- new fuel lines
- new speed & reference sensors

We uncovered some interesting info:
- the late engines seem to use the same balance shafts as the 3l, the early and turbo are also identical
- the early and late blocks differ not just in a temp sensor (1 vs 2 wires, different thread size, early touches the block, late is actually in contact with the coolant. the wires go to the instrument panel - we used an adapter to fit my original to match the gauge) but also a washer/circlip is different somewhere on the crank

We ordered the late silicon hoses from LR but they do not fit. Does anybody now why? Afaik, the block and the radiator are the same on early and late cars, yet the length of the hoses are completely off. Haven't managed to clear this with LR yet.

Here's what it looks like:

V2Rocket

very nice!
engine looks nice and clean, good color choice.
this should be an interesting beast!
i will be interested in seeing the kind of power output you get from this...

i am on the fence about building my own large NA engine, but i sold the sleeved block i had (but i still have a 3.0 crank laying around )...

MAGK944

Looks good!
Where did you get those front cover "thumb" fasteners? Also, what compression did you end up with and is it still interference?

Ish_944

Thanks guys!
I'm also curious, I'm gonna pick it up on Thursday, if all goes well.

MAGK944:
Unfortunately I don't know, the fasteners are from my machine shop. I'm also not sure if I'll get it back with them or with regular screws.
The calculated compression ratio is 11:1. Originally I wanted to go for 12:1 but then we decided that it's safer to stay lower. Who knows how good the head design is, and when will it start detonating? Better have lower compression than lots of ignition advance.

I also wanted to know if it was interference or not but my mechanics didn't check it for some reason. I still regret this.
I'm guessing that it's not, because the cylinders come up to the top of the block and as you can see I only have -5 ccm cut-outs.

V2Rocket

how did a mustang get to europe?

Noahs944

Ish 944, I MUST compliment you on your hard effort. I would love to experience driving that engine. I really had my mind set on a stroker for a while... it is not a cheap or easy method my my estimation!! Well done.

-Are those factory exhaust manifolds?

V2Rocket

Noah - those are the factory 83-84 exhaust manifolds, cast-iron.

Noahs944

European manifolds?