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I am getting ready to pull the 2.5 from my track only 924s and I have the s2 ready to go in with a microsquirt. does anyone have an idea of what the trigger angle is for the 60-2 flywheel? I picked up a set of Audi vw COP and 35lb high z injectors along with a ford TB and TPS.
I am going to use the stock hall crank sensor.
for checking tming I have been wondering about that. the little window to the flywheel from top is TDC, so if the timing light with the adjustable **** is set to say 10 and the laptop is saying 10, I'm good right? I cant think of another way besides adding some sort of degree wheel setup on the front pulley.
I'm pretty sure it's around 60 deg BTDC. You will most certainly need to check everything with a timing light though, but that should get the car started.
Also FYI the stock sensor is a VR sensor, not hall. Although the cam sensor is hall effect.
Here's the best way to verify timing: In your tune settings (Tuner Studio) go to general settings where you can choose algorithms for things like fuel and spark. I.e. MAF, speed density, alpha-N, etc. For your spark algorithm there should be an option for a fixed value. Set this to something like 15deg BTDC, which is a normal value for ignition advance at idle and start the car. Now set your timing light for 15deg BTDC and point it at the window. Adjust your Tooth #1 angle until your timing light is ****-on with the indicator inside the window. Then, go back and change your setting from 'fixed value' to using the table.
The 3rd wire doesn't go to the sensor or to the DME. It's a braided steel mesh sheath around the 2 signal wires to protect the signal from interference. If you cut open the wiring, you will see it's just 2 wires and the "3rd wire" is just that sheath being terminated at the connector.
I am getting ready to pull the 2.5 from my track only 924s and I have the s2 ready to go in with a microsquirt. does anyone have an idea of what the trigger angle is for the 60-2 flywheel? I picked up a set of Audi vw COP and 35lb high z injectors along with a ford TB and TPS.
I am going to use the stock hall crank sensor.
for checking tming I have been wondering about that. the little window to the flywheel from top is TDC, so if the timing light with the adjustable **** is set to say 10 and the laptop is saying 10, I'm good right? I cant think of another way besides adding some sort of degree wheel setup on the front pulley.
thanks,
Pete
Not sure if it's the same but my VEMS is set to 110.0 degrees after the trigger,
I hope I'm not confusing things
I'm putting together a mega/microsquirt kit and was hoping for some quick feedback on my setup.
This is going into an endurance race car and the goal is to remove the AFM and to make the setup more reliable and diagnose-able. I have no need to re-use the stock wiring, harness, or setup. I plan on giving the ECU 12V power and give it a button to start - no factory wiring left over.
I assume I'll purchase the microsquirt kit with the 30' harness and then just splice in whatever connectors are spec'd for the injectors/coils I purchase. Are the LSx coils and injectors still the preferred choice, or have better choices been found since the thread was started? I normally don't have a problem grabbing parts out of a junkyard, but for the sake of time I think I'd prefer to just pick some new parts and have them show up at my door, assuming the cost isn't huge. Also, I see how Odonnell mounted his coil packs on the passenger strut tower - I am concerned about the durability of this location in endurance racing. Anyone have any feedback on the long term durability of this, or if there are better methods?
I understand that the microsquirt fires the injectors and coils in batch mode, similar to the stock ECU. Do I understand correctly that if I wanted to go to individual COP in the future, I would need to upgrade from microsquirt to a higher model?
Is there any other reason I'd want to start with a higher level of megasquirt so I'm not limited down the road?
I'm putting together a mega/microsquirt kit and was hoping for some quick feedback on my setup.
This is going into an endurance race car and the goal is to remove the AFM and to make the setup more reliable and diagnose-able. I have no need to re-use the stock wiring, harness, or setup. I plan on giving the ECU 12V power and give it a button to start - no factory wiring left over.
I assume I'll purchase the microsquirt kit with the 30' harness and then just splice in whatever connectors are spec'd for the injectors/coils I purchase. Are the LSx coils and injectors still the preferred choice, or have better choices been found since the thread was started? I normally don't have a problem grabbing parts out of a junkyard, but for the sake of time I think I'd prefer to just pick some new parts and have them show up at my door, assuming the cost isn't huge. Also, I see how Odonnell mounted his coil packs on the passenger strut tower - I am concerned about the durability of this location in endurance racing. Anyone have any feedback on the long term durability of this, or if there are better methods?
You can run whatever. Doug and I went with LS coils because they're robust, inexpensive, and wire in with almost no effort. They're logic-level (no igniter needed) which is standard on Microsquirt. Otherwise you would need at least a 2-channel igniter module to remove the dizzy. Not a big deal but extra stuff in the equation. There are lot of options here, just choose something that works best - even stock distributor setup if you can't be bothered.
For injectors same thing. I chose high impedance injectors because I can run 2 per injector channel in parallel but use what best suits your application. Just be aware of the impedance required per channel. I currently run Ford Racing 30# injectors which are high impedance but also EV6 style, plug and play. I noticed a more refined idle compared to the Saab 2.3 EV1 injectors I had been using of around the same flow rate (one started leaking so I swapped).
I understand that the microsquirt fires the injectors and coils in batch mode, similar to the stock ECU. Do I understand correctly that if I wanted to go to individual COP in the future, I would need to upgrade from microsquirt to a higher model?
Not all COP has to have sequential ignition, you can still wire them to fire in wasted spark mode. I run 4x LS coils in wasted spark and the same thing could be done for 4x COP sticks which is what I'm doing for my 951 on MS3Pro. Microsquirt can handle sequential spark for a 4cyl with the use of a cam sensor. However because the current Micro only has 2 injector channels you cannot have sequential fuel injection (which would need 4 channels). So to have sequential fuel+spark yes, you would need a different unit. I didn't see the need for my NA but for my 951 I have an MS3Pro so why not use that functionality.
Personally I only see sequential fuel as a benefit for a street car where you are in low throttle transience in day-to-day driving, I would not bend over backward for a track car. After a certain point the injectors are already opening for a certain amount of time and the exact timeframe in which they are open relative to the cam phase becomes meaningless. You will see that on a dyno there is no power gained by going from batch fire to sequential because of this.
Is there any other reason I'd want to start with a higher level of megasquirt so I'm not limited down the road?
Decide what features are most important to you and start there. The Micro is a very good value and does a lot. ECU is already assembled and we already worked out all the details to make it work in a 944/951. But there is a ton of extra functionality on MS3Pro. That is IMHO the only other system to consider, MS2/MS3 require a lot more effort and you can jump right to MS3Pro for very little more investment. I got mine for $750 new in box with both harnesses, from someone who decided to cancel their build.
Thank you for the detailed feedback. Sounds like I am going microsquirt. I am sure I will have dozens of questions as I start putting the system together.
Did some junkyard shopping in anticipation of getting a megasquirt 2:
Wasted Spark Coil Pack (99 Beetle gls)
3.0 bar FPR (94 Volvo 850)
VR Sensor (00 Mustang V6)
Oxygen sensors (99 Beetle gls and 94 Volvo 850 -- hopefully one is wideband)
TPS (2002 Buick Regal GS)
Still missing:
Injectors (Checked the mustangs, but they have skinny siemens with a different connector)
Open element IAT sensor 25036751 (scoured the junkyard-- are there any Chevy's that actually use this chevy sensor?)
36-1 reluctor wheel -- I'm planning on buying one, but does anyone know if one off a Ford will work?
For injectors, I switched over to Ford Racing BB302 (made by Bosch) last year. They are plug and play, around 30 lb/hr. I have injector characterization data if you want it (dead time, etc)
For the wideband, strongly recommend you get a new unit with a gauge. Not only is it calibrated correctly but the gauge itself is your usual reference for tuning VE.
For injectors same thing. I chose high impedance injectors because I can run 2 per injector channel in parallel but use what best suits your application. Just be aware of the impedance required per channel. I currently run Ford Racing 30# injectors which are high impedance but also EV6 style, plug, and play. I noticed a more refined idle compared to the Saab 2.3 EV1 injectors I had been using of around the same flow rate (one started leaking so I swapped).
Hey Micheal,
So I am back fiddling with MS again I added a MS3X expansion card. I want to go stock appearing engine compartment, so I want to get rid of the front 36-1 wheel and use the flywheel sensors also I am using the same Saab injectors you used earlier in your build because I want it to pass a visual test during the bi-annual smog test I bought a set of EV6 injectors but could never get the car to run with them I think fuel pressure too low and the stick out since they are taller and light blue the saab injectors also plays nice with my f9tech DME. my question is do you have any dead time data on the saab inj or what settings worked best for you? and also do you have any info on the ref pin offset data? Think I saw 60 deg somewhere? went thru 4 staters in a month because of starter kick back because timing was way off 2 in 1 week thank good for lifetime warranty lol any help is always appreciated...
I was never able to find anything on those Saab injectors. That was a big reason I changed over to BB302s as soon as I had a good reason. You can actually measure it yourself, but you need to build a rig and have some free time. If you search you should be able to find some guidance... basically hooking up an injector to a fuel source on the bench and measuring volume to calculate the actual dead time.
No idea on the actual reference pin offset. I believe for a 951 it's around 60deg and probably similar on an NA. You can get the car started and use a timing light to find the offset for sure.
09-08-2018 | 10:03 PM
