Axle fell off...AGAIN!
11-27-2013, 07:56 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
Some thoughts:
1. The bolts you are using might be too long and you are thus locking them against the bottom of the hole rather than clamping the joint. With the axle out, install bolts in all the holes such that they do bottom out and make sure the remaining projected length is less than the thickness of the CV and washer plates.
2. The threads in the hub may be too far gone.
3. You are using a torque wrench during assembly, right?
I don't want to pile on but as others have said, a properly torqued joint won't need locktite or any other heroic measures. I do use the Ideola locking tabs on my track car. They are more of an insurance policy than anything else. And a good visual aid. When you reassemble, mark all the bolts with white paint stick and check daily for signs that one or more bolts is loosening. One bad hole (damaged threads in the hub) may be screwing you over. Or unscrewing you
1. The bolts you are using might be too long and you are thus locking them against the bottom of the hole rather than clamping the joint. With the axle out, install bolts in all the holes such that they do bottom out and make sure the remaining projected length is less than the thickness of the CV and washer plates.
2. The threads in the hub may be too far gone.
3. You are using a torque wrench during assembly, right?
I don't want to pile on but as others have said, a properly torqued joint won't need locktite or any other heroic measures. I do use the Ideola locking tabs on my track car. They are more of an insurance policy than anything else. And a good visual aid. When you reassemble, mark all the bolts with white paint stick and check daily for signs that one or more bolts is loosening. One bad hole (damaged threads in the hub) may be screwing you over. Or unscrewing you
11-27-2013, 01:42 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
I think it is more important to make sure the grease is off the head of the bolt and the washers. I call them dog bones what you refer to as the half moon things. I spray them down with brake clean to make sure they are completely free of grease. Then torque them down to spec.
As Harvey said, I have been tracking my car for over 5 years, plus 100k mi and never had one loosen. Putting on loctite will make removal a nightmare. It's very easy to strip those triple square bolts normally.
As Harvey said, I have been tracking my car for over 5 years, plus 100k mi and never had one loosen. Putting on loctite will make removal a nightmare. It's very easy to strip those triple square bolts normally.
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megid (05-10-2020)
11-27-2013, 02:11 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
1. Immaculately clean threads, I use brake cleaner & chase the threads out with a tap.
2. Use new bolts & torque to spec in a circular pattern.
3. Do not use locktite.
I've had one of my cars from new and never had anything back there loosen. This is how they are assembled at the factory, FWSM doesn't mention locktite. When I replaced the axles about 8 years ago on that car, I followed this procedure and still nothing has come apart back there.
It's a bit pointless asking advise on how to do things and then not taking that advise and posting you still have a problem. Good Luck.
11-27-2013, 03:32 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Order a set from ideola's garage and be done with it.
11-28-2013, 12:58 AM
#38
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I would love to get the kit, but I'm also fresh out of college and can't afford it. Whenever I get hired full time I plan on getting the kit, but right now I'm trying to find out what the problem is
11-28-2013, 01:00 AM
#39
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11-28-2013, 01:20 AM
#40
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Stage8 bolts are really the only way to go IMHO. Ditches the evil hateful triple square bit and the evil hateful stretch bolt nonsense. Wont come undone no matter how greasy the threads are.
11-28-2013, 08:31 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
I hear you, when you are low on funds any car expense is a bitch. That is why I drove my Porsche 356 around in college while having to drag the battery into my room at night to recharge because the generator had quit!
1. Visually inspect all your bolts. If they have thread damage or are necked down or pinched in any way on the shaft, get new ones. Probably have to buy mail order, most ACE hardwares don't carry this kind of stuff.
2. Invest in a can of spray parts cleaner and clean out the holes in the hub really well.
3. Hand thread the bolts into the hub. If they take more than a light wrench force, the threads are messed up. If there is resistance, try another bolt. If that one also fights you the threads in the hub are boogered. Borrow a tap and try and clean them up. Not preferred, you can never add back missing metal but might work. Worst case is buy and install a used hub. If you can wiggle the shaft of the installed bolt from side to side more than 1/16" the hole is also sloppy and hub needs replaced.
4. Like I said earlier, make sure the bolts go in far enough to ensure you are really clamping the CV joint. The space from under the head of the bolt to the face of the hub has to be less than the thickness of the CV joint with the plate washer. One or two washers under the head of the bolt are OK, as long as you meet the next check: Rule of thumb is that bolts need to engage to a depth equal to 1 1/2 times their nominal diameter to develop full strength. So the second check is to make sure your bolts are at least long enough to stick out from the CV joint by 1 1/2 times their diameter.
5. The bolts and the holes should be reasonably clean by now. Don't freak out about the last bit of grease. Too much lubricant on the threads just means you reach shop manual torque at a higher pre-load. Not a bad thing unless the bolt breaks.
6. Beg, borrow, or steal a torque wrench. Torque to 30 ft-lbs (Ref. Clarks Garage website). You know that you can only torque 1 or 2 at a time while getting a straight shot around the CV joint. So you'll have to rotate the assembly several times to get all of them. Using a near side- far side tightening pattern is a good idea. Everything is going to want to spin. I use a heavy bar wedged between several wheel side lug studs and against the floor to keep things from spinning. Having an assistant mash on the brakes would be easier and quicker.
7. Mark the bolts with a paint stick or your girlfriends finger nail polish. I said to check them daily not be be a pain in the *** but to identify early if there is 1 bolt that comes loose pretty quickly and then allows the connection to wiggle and work out the others. If 1 comes loose, you need a new hub and/or new bolts.
8. Not to quibble with others but the torque and the preload in the bolts is what keeps them installed. All the locking devices in the world won't keep in a loose bolt in this type of dynamically loaded joint. As Carroll Smith said "Lock wire on aircraft bolts is to just keep the hardware from falling out of the sky and hitting someone, when it comes loose."
Happy Thanksgiving! And be glad you're in NO and not up here where it is colder than hell!
1. Visually inspect all your bolts. If they have thread damage or are necked down or pinched in any way on the shaft, get new ones. Probably have to buy mail order, most ACE hardwares don't carry this kind of stuff.
2. Invest in a can of spray parts cleaner and clean out the holes in the hub really well.
3. Hand thread the bolts into the hub. If they take more than a light wrench force, the threads are messed up. If there is resistance, try another bolt. If that one also fights you the threads in the hub are boogered. Borrow a tap and try and clean them up. Not preferred, you can never add back missing metal but might work. Worst case is buy and install a used hub. If you can wiggle the shaft of the installed bolt from side to side more than 1/16" the hole is also sloppy and hub needs replaced.
4. Like I said earlier, make sure the bolts go in far enough to ensure you are really clamping the CV joint. The space from under the head of the bolt to the face of the hub has to be less than the thickness of the CV joint with the plate washer. One or two washers under the head of the bolt are OK, as long as you meet the next check: Rule of thumb is that bolts need to engage to a depth equal to 1 1/2 times their nominal diameter to develop full strength. So the second check is to make sure your bolts are at least long enough to stick out from the CV joint by 1 1/2 times their diameter.
5. The bolts and the holes should be reasonably clean by now. Don't freak out about the last bit of grease. Too much lubricant on the threads just means you reach shop manual torque at a higher pre-load. Not a bad thing unless the bolt breaks.
6. Beg, borrow, or steal a torque wrench. Torque to 30 ft-lbs (Ref. Clarks Garage website). You know that you can only torque 1 or 2 at a time while getting a straight shot around the CV joint. So you'll have to rotate the assembly several times to get all of them. Using a near side- far side tightening pattern is a good idea. Everything is going to want to spin. I use a heavy bar wedged between several wheel side lug studs and against the floor to keep things from spinning. Having an assistant mash on the brakes would be easier and quicker.
7. Mark the bolts with a paint stick or your girlfriends finger nail polish. I said to check them daily not be be a pain in the *** but to identify early if there is 1 bolt that comes loose pretty quickly and then allows the connection to wiggle and work out the others. If 1 comes loose, you need a new hub and/or new bolts.
8. Not to quibble with others but the torque and the preload in the bolts is what keeps them installed. All the locking devices in the world won't keep in a loose bolt in this type of dynamically loaded joint. As Carroll Smith said "Lock wire on aircraft bolts is to just keep the hardware from falling out of the sky and hitting someone, when it comes loose."
Happy Thanksgiving! And be glad you're in NO and not up here where it is colder than hell!
