Lemming

When I was running ATE blue I had to bleed the brakes every day at the track. Try Motul 660 and better pads and I'm guessing you will not have any problems.

StoogeMoe

True, that's after a cool down lap. But would that shed 600-some degrees?

I change my pads for every event. It's not that much of a pain. It takes about 40 minutes.

You're not supposed to use brakes on the 944 anyway. It never gets fast enough!

Lemming

No, you are not going to shed 600o, but you do need to know what temps you are seeing on track to determine what pads you should be using.

PelicanParts.com

Tim, which pads do you prefer - sorry if I missed that
Mark/Pelican parts

Lemming

Hawk DTC 70/60 F/R.

PelicanParts.com

And last question, of the tracks you run, which works the pads the most as far as temp?
Thanks!

Oddjob

What intermediate pad? Need to run a race pad on the track. This will solve your fade problem.

Can add the 968 upper and lower scoops for cooling, but likely don't even need to do that unless racing. The ducted cool brake kits are problematic with the hosing. Become a maintenance item, keeping them out of the way of the front wheels/tires. Ive used both. Have removed the cool brake kit from my only car that had it. Have used the 968 scoops on everything. But again, most fade problems are due to inadequate pad compounds.

Operating temps for pads are for the contact surface during threshold braking. This is when you see race cars w/ their rotors glowing orange at night. They cool down dramatically immediately after releasing the brake pressure. Contact surface heat conducts quickly thru the pad material, backing plates and into the caliper, as does the rotor surface heat. Checking rotor temps in the pits will not be close to what the pad and rotor contact surface experience during actual braking.

The issue is that the coeff of friction drops off significantly if the designed operating temp range of the pad is exceeded. This is why the brakes feel like they are "fading" when overheated. I recall seeing some temp/friction curves for various pad compounds, from some major vendor like pagid or hawk. Showed how much the friction drops off as the temps increase. And at some point, the pad material will start softening and transfering onto the rotor. Pagid Orange notoriously do this. Causes severe vibration and is often incorrectly confused for warped rotors. It is nearly impossible to actually warp a factory porsche vented rotor.

mel_t_vin

Jim, don't 951 control arms require some modification to accept the 968 scoops and paddles?

Oddjob

Allen,

Yes, there are brackets you can use to mount the lower scoop to a 944/951 arm, if you dont have the 968 arms with the mounting tabs/holes.

If the struts don't have the bracket for the cooling scoops, you can just zip tie the upper scoops to the strut. Can't find a good pic of that, but will keep looking for one.

Frozen Rotors/Diversified Cryogenics used to sell the a-arm brackets w/ the full 968 scoop kit. Not cheap, so if you have some fab skills, you can make up something yourself.

MAGK944

Thanks Jim, I'm going to get myself some of those 968 scoops and some more aggressive pads and see what happens. What pads are running or do you have any recommendation?

Oddjob

When you mentioned intermediate, have you run something like a Hawk Blue? Assuming you have N/A single piston calipers?

Pads are almost like engine oil, a lot of opinions on what is the best.

I am not a fan of the Porterfield pads, they don't hold up well on hard braking tracks. I do like some of the Hawk pads, Blues for DEs and DTC70s for racing. Pagid Blacks are good, I don't like the Oranges due to the material transfer issues mentioned above. PFC makes some popular pads, 97s and higher. I have heard good things about some of the aggressive Cobalt Friction and CarboTech pads, but have never tried them.

Some of the brands and compounds are significantly more expensive than others. So that is part of the consideration when trying or testing some new compounds.

Also, you may run into some limitations on pads available for N/A calipers. I know that 10+ years ago when I was racing a 944S, Pagid race pads were not available for the stock calipers - not sure if that is still the case.

mel_t_vin

Jim, do those [paddle] brackets only attach with a single mounting point, at the upper sway bar drop link bushing/nut? And that's the lower scoop, correct? Does the 968 use the same/similar upper scoop as the 951 [metal curved plate that mounts to stand-off on strut housing]?

I, too, have a cool brake kit [molded backing plate, mounted to spindle, with duct for hose] on my car and I, too, have [temporarily] removed the hose for the same reasons you mentioned [maintenance, interference, accessibility].

Mike, if/when you finally retro-fit these scoops on your car, please post up your [fabricated] solution for this set-up. I'll do the same.

mj951

http://www.americaninternationalraci...259246&page=46

AIR carries a pair.

MAGK944

Turbo not na, but they look quite smart.

Oddjob

Yes, the lower scoop bracket (for 944/951 arms) attaches only to the top of the sway bar drop link mount. I can take a few more pics of the brackets and will post in the next couple days.

The 968 upper scoops are a plastic cup that mount in the same location as the 951 alum plates. The 968 parts are probably a better design, and I use both the upper and lower together, although the upper scoop by itself is probably also an upgrade. You should also cut a hole in the brake backing plate for the lower scoop to direct air right onto the rotor.

Here is the full 968 scoop pair mounted on fabcar a-arms (has the mounting holes), upper scoop mounted on the strut bracket, and a 968 dust backing plate w/ the cutout for the lower scoop.