Manning

Frankly I am not surprised. However, this result may be a little severe as he is mostly an annoying putz (versus me, who is an opinionated and stubborn jerk)

In any event, I have a pretty good idea who is less surprised and who is outraged, but to get a better idea, please post your feelings (about the "ban" not about what a jerk I am) and your age.

Renntag

Wow, how did this happen?....more importantly...why?

Opinions are like, you know, and everyone has one by default configuration of anatomy.

Nextly: How often has this happened before?

Very curious...

Eric

It is amazing that even after he has been banned, Craig can still generate discussion(what is this the third or fourth post on this subject?) Me? Am I surprised he has been banned? no. Do I care one way or the other? no. I guess I join Skip in the "Swiss cheese" category. Besides, with football starting Sunday, who has time to think about this?

Eric(with a laoner wheel from AGLA and no horn and football on my brain)

keith

Manning - you're not trying to start some age discrimination on this board, are you?

Manning

Darn, so far this isn't getting the results I wanted.

I was posting with an interest more from a socio-anthropological standpoint. I want to know what your opinion is and your age because I suspect the folks that are bummed are in their teens or early to mid twenties and the folks that do not care or are not surprised are older. This is based on the experience I have had that the younger folks on the list are the ones who are more likely to post about doing smokey burn-outs or traffic light/on ramp drag racing.

No offense young-uns, but as you get older you start to realize that you bleed when you get cut.

Manning

Keith,

No, just interested. We (as humans) naturally gravitate to common or familiar groups. I am just interested to see how this incident shakes out along those lines.

All,

If you want, reply about this off the board so we don't waste the band width. And be honest, don't sway your opinion just to debunk my theory. Pretty please.

mmanning@jasedlak.com

Adam Richman

I said my peace (or is it piece) in one of the other many posts dedicated to the subject.

age: Australopithecus (or there abouts)

Michael Stephenson

Age: 38

I feel that Craig should not have been banned from the Discussion Board, but I do not know the facts of the situation. I think it is great that there is a mix of opinions and age groups on this list. I view the Discussion Boards as just that – a place for discussion. If I need heavy duty technical advice on my car I go to the E-mail boards because the subscribers tend to be more technical in nature.

However, I do not think that the E-mail lists are the place for the types of discussions I see on this site. The E-mail list occasionally takes the low road, but its has more racers and mechanics and the low roads are usually built around technical subjects.

As an “older” lister, I think that it is important to be exposed to the younger point of view and I think that it is important that they are exposed to an older point of view. I fell that us older folks can provide the experience, wisdom, and folly of our youth so that perhaps a few of the younger listers can forego the bad experiences. It is our opportunity to serve as mentors-at-large.

Had I had access to the type of information and opinions as a fledgling driver that I have now, I feel that my driving skill would have developed far sooner and with far fewer painful lessons. I would have also saved several thousand dollars in repair and maintenance costs due to the shared technical knowledge. What am I saying – even now I save thousands in repair and maintenance costs due to the shared technical knowledge of this list.

Anyway, by depriving people like Craig from participation on this list, I feel that we are missing an opportunity to help guide a car enthusiast into a safe and knowledgeable path of vehicular enjoyment, which in turn makes him/her a better member of society.

MAS

I'm 43... and I am surprised that Craig got banned. I enjoyed his posts... OK, some may have been a little off topic, but give him a break, he's 17. At least he has a very real and enthusiastic interest in his much-loved 944.

Let's be realistic, most of his friends who have cars are probably either driving cheesy looking Hondas, or fat-tired Mustangs. Let's give him some credit for choosing a 944... and being interested in *everything* about the car (underline *everything*)

-MAS

fletch.

Is this a Joke?

Banning Craig? FOR WHAT! This banning people crap is usually the end to a good forum. I have seen it happen way to many times. I stopped moderating on another site for this very reason.

If everyone that posted off topic was banned this place would be dead, if everyone that posted a stupid oil change question was banned there would be no one here.

Craig has done nothing that I have seen to justify a banning, furthermore the people that would support such an action should be sure they don’t post off topic, have a silly question or act 17. This entire thing is beyond ridiculous and I am amazed that grown men are worried about what Craig wants to post. Until he threatens someone or Trolls I support him and frown on the people that want him out.

rpm's S2

I'm not sure how I feel about anyone being banned from this forum. The problem is Free speech vs Noise, and I have always been a bit loud myself.

There is, however, IMHO no doubt that the quality of discussion has dimmed since the format of Rennlist changed last spring. With the corresponding increase in members, important technical discussion is getting lost amid the constant off-topic threads.

An example? I posted a question several days ago about cooling fan shut off and so far have recieved just one reply (which is not so say that answer was not much appreciated). I guess I will have to look elsewhere for an answer.

If the topic had been, "Virgins - Better in a 951 or an S2?" I would probably have been overwhelmed by opinion. (S2 of course )

Renntag

I agree with fletch and Michael.

Besides....Freedom of speech....<?>
....Freedom to ignore....<?>

I do think that there needs to be a tech only forum...some threads do get lost.

Thaddeus

You're outta here, Ralph.

I'm 39 and I was surprised/disappointed he got the nail. I have been surprised by the vehemence with which some people responded to his posts. So they were off-topic, immature, impulsive. That's 17, baby. You don't have to read his stuff if you don't want to.

If his posts were racist, sexist, abusive, then I'd see the reason to cut him out of the herd. But they weren't, at least not the ones I read. Maybe some were that got deleted. As somebody wisely pointed out, we don't have all the facts. But it would be nice if we did.

This isn't a public forum, analogous to the way in which a shoppping mall is not a public forum. It's a privately owned and maintained space, and the owner/operator has an interest in keeping things under control. But clear rules of conduct would seem to be in order; this is merely being respectful of the patrons who use the space... and add value to the space for the owner.

Thaddeus

Tom R.

I'm with Renntag. I think we need a tech only forum.

How the yungins learn about the world isn't my concern. How the yungins keep their car in top mechanical (aka safe) condition is a concern.

I'm 39, and have fond memories (and scars) of mistaks I made while just "tinkering" with a 350 (aka 5.7). If I thought I knew now what I didn't know then, I would not have grown (and supposedly matured).

Heres a solution: A tech only forum, and if there are nonsense posts to that forum a banning. Whaddaya think?

Manning

I am totally with Michael Stephens about the e-Mail list versus Web forum. I migrated over to the Web forum when my IE 5.5 install kept giving me errors when I would try to post to the e-Mail list. SP2 has fixed that. Anyway, to the point the e-Mail list does seem to have a more technical orientation. I have also noticed that many of the more technically attuned posters to the e-Mail list do not seem to post here (anymore). My guess is because this forum seems more like an MTV chat room at times.

Regarding Craig or anyone like him, I do not know him personally, but based on his posting habits I would want to keep a can of Cutter or Off around if I had to be in the same room with him. Should he have been banned, no. Should he simmer down a bit, yeah. It is great that he is enthusiastic, but sometimes enthusiasm can lead to trouble. I lost many friends to enthusiasm when I was in high school in the early eighties. One had his head chopped off because his enthusiastic buddy thought he was some hotshot powerboat racer or something. Are we helping or hurting when we facilitate such things as chirping tires in third???!

I was a punk (remember punk rock) when I was a kid, but I also had a sense of ethics and etiquette.

Michael, you can only mentor people if they let you. Craig doesn't seem to want to be mentored.

Give him a second chance for sure. Maybe a little Ritalin too (no offense to any ADHD folks out there).

By the way, I am 35.