My 911 owner experience
11-03-2001, 04:30 PM
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My 911 owner experience
I have mixed reviews over the topic listed below on "Friggin 911 Drivers". I know some very cool people who know the history of the cars, and are true car lovers. These are the guys who actually know how to work on their cars, they know what a turbo is, they understand mechanics, etc. I have one such friend who owns a restoration shop here in Cincinnati. He usually only works on air cooled cars, but he is a true car guy. He has restored RRs, Ferraris (Daytona, 512BB), etc. If you have ever seen pictures of the "retro" Boxter with a 550 spyder style front end, well he made that car. Anyway, what I am saying is that there are 911 guys who do appreciate the heritage and quality of the marque and the model, be it a 911, 944, or 928.
I believe the comments refer to the "second group" of 911 (and other Porsches too) owners. Most of these guys purchased the car because it says Porsche on the hood. They know nothing about the history of the car, nor do they care.....it is used as a prestige item.....just like the clothes they wear, and the people they hang out with. The funniest part is most of these guys can't drive their car to the limit, and the even funnier part is few of them actually own the car (i.e. they can't afford to buy it, so they lease it). It is ALL about prestige to these guys. Next time you see some of these guys at an event, start asking them about their cars........most don't know the difference between a rocker arm valve setup, and a cup lifter over the valve setup (just an example).
For me the best part of all is PUSHING these guys who think they have the fastest car on the road. 8.5 psig of boost does wonders for a 928.
Remember, the 944/944 turbo was THE car that kept Porsche alive in the 80s. It is the car that allowed all of these guys to be able to buy their 911s. Without the 944/944 turbo, Porsche would have probably gone into the ****ter.....like they nearly did in the early 90s.
It is now so funny to watch all of the "911 purists" who claimed that a REAL porsche was air cooled go in and buy a new 996 or Boxter (in my opinion, the "look at me" Porsche). Porsche switched to liquid cooling for many reasons, like emissions requirements, mulit-valve technology, etc.
This is just my $0.02 worth!
I believe the comments refer to the "second group" of 911 (and other Porsches too) owners. Most of these guys purchased the car because it says Porsche on the hood. They know nothing about the history of the car, nor do they care.....it is used as a prestige item.....just like the clothes they wear, and the people they hang out with. The funniest part is most of these guys can't drive their car to the limit, and the even funnier part is few of them actually own the car (i.e. they can't afford to buy it, so they lease it). It is ALL about prestige to these guys. Next time you see some of these guys at an event, start asking them about their cars........most don't know the difference between a rocker arm valve setup, and a cup lifter over the valve setup (just an example).
For me the best part of all is PUSHING these guys who think they have the fastest car on the road. 8.5 psig of boost does wonders for a 928.
Remember, the 944/944 turbo was THE car that kept Porsche alive in the 80s. It is the car that allowed all of these guys to be able to buy their 911s. Without the 944/944 turbo, Porsche would have probably gone into the ****ter.....like they nearly did in the early 90s.
It is now so funny to watch all of the "911 purists" who claimed that a REAL porsche was air cooled go in and buy a new 996 or Boxter (in my opinion, the "look at me" Porsche). Porsche switched to liquid cooling for many reasons, like emissions requirements, mulit-valve technology, etc.
This is just my $0.02 worth!
11-03-2001, 05:42 PM
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I'll add my 2 cents also, with some observations on the American Class system.
Sad fact is, the people who are buying a car for the prestige it confers are never gonna get it, no matter how much bread they have. In this country, if you aren't born and bred into an old family, go to the right prep school, the right College, hang out in the right places, dress a certain way, speak a certain way (the list of qualifiers is endless) you are an imitator and definitely on the outside. (I speak as an outsider who has witnessed the inside). You can't buy class in this country, though many people try.
Also, I sort of suspect the Porsche is, for all its heritage, a blue collar car. It appeals to car enthusiasts (not blue bloods) who either have money, or don't have money but like to wrench; or (b) those poor souls who are trying to be something they aren't. I don't see the upper classes giving much of a damn about cars in general, or Porsches in particular. Liking cars a whole lot is vulgar. The blue bloods like horses and wooden sailing boats.... as long as somebody else does the grunt work of maintaining them.
Liking cars is a hallmark of the working class, or people with working class roots. People who appreciate something excellent because they understand how much work, creativity, and effort such a thing represents, who can identify with that effort, and love it for that reason.
So, the folks who buy Porsches, Mercedes, Jags, Ferraris, etc., with the hopes they'll enhance their prestige are basically fooling themselves. They can go to the best restaurants, buy a house in a gated neighborhood, wear Brooks Brothers clothes, etc., but if you weren't born there, you can't get there.
And it really doesn't matter. The class such people are emulating are an anachronism now. While they still have better access to the power centers of the country, merit is (now more than ever) the key to getting anywhere. The society is more open now than it's ever been, though not as open as it should be.
Anyway, buying a car for prestige is stupid. You buy a car like this because of what it is, how it performs, because you care about design, because you are interested in something besides yourself and your social standing. Which I think is something the posters to this board all understand.
~cheers~
Thaddeus the Blue Collar Boy
Sad fact is, the people who are buying a car for the prestige it confers are never gonna get it, no matter how much bread they have. In this country, if you aren't born and bred into an old family, go to the right prep school, the right College, hang out in the right places, dress a certain way, speak a certain way (the list of qualifiers is endless) you are an imitator and definitely on the outside. (I speak as an outsider who has witnessed the inside). You can't buy class in this country, though many people try.
Also, I sort of suspect the Porsche is, for all its heritage, a blue collar car. It appeals to car enthusiasts (not blue bloods) who either have money, or don't have money but like to wrench; or (b) those poor souls who are trying to be something they aren't. I don't see the upper classes giving much of a damn about cars in general, or Porsches in particular. Liking cars a whole lot is vulgar. The blue bloods like horses and wooden sailing boats.... as long as somebody else does the grunt work of maintaining them.
Liking cars is a hallmark of the working class, or people with working class roots. People who appreciate something excellent because they understand how much work, creativity, and effort such a thing represents, who can identify with that effort, and love it for that reason.
So, the folks who buy Porsches, Mercedes, Jags, Ferraris, etc., with the hopes they'll enhance their prestige are basically fooling themselves. They can go to the best restaurants, buy a house in a gated neighborhood, wear Brooks Brothers clothes, etc., but if you weren't born there, you can't get there.
And it really doesn't matter. The class such people are emulating are an anachronism now. While they still have better access to the power centers of the country, merit is (now more than ever) the key to getting anywhere. The society is more open now than it's ever been, though not as open as it should be.
Anyway, buying a car for prestige is stupid. You buy a car like this because of what it is, how it performs, because you care about design, because you are interested in something besides yourself and your social standing. Which I think is something the posters to this board all understand.
~cheers~
Thaddeus the Blue Collar Boy
11-03-2001, 06:08 PM
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I know someone who bought a brand new 996, and about 2 months later sold it. These people were loaded, and when we were at their [huge] house in Winter Park I asked his wife why they traded it in for the 2001 Benz sitting in their garage...
"Oh, it was really bumpy to drive."
My best friend (hey Phil) and I just looked at each other and laughed our heads off inside... why you ask...?
For crying outloud - these people live on a cobble-stone road!!
Ha.
It's like what Hans at Porsche Cars North Orlando told me...in a thick German accent...
"Deese vich people don't vant to feel das road oonder deir buttox. Day vant to feel like dey are on das couch vatching televichun. Day vouldn't know if day vere driving deir Cadivac off das road into und deetch."
Another funny story, happened, I swear, while I was sitter there waiting for my car at PC North Orlando...
Phone call comes in, Porsche tech (who I was talking too, who owns a cherry 88 924S) answers the phone...
"Yes sir...yes sir...no sir you don't need to leave it there sir. You can bring it in here if you'd like and we'll fix it for you, or you can do it yourself. No sir, there is nothing wrong with your car. Yes sir, it will be ok, the blinker is blinking really fast because one of the bulbs is out...no sir, you don't need a tow truck..."
It was a 2001 Boxster. My friend and I were on the ground rolling... We gave the tech props for not laughing while on the phone. He said he gets calls like that all the time...
"Oh, it was really bumpy to drive."
My best friend (hey Phil) and I just looked at each other and laughed our heads off inside... why you ask...?
For crying outloud - these people live on a cobble-stone road!!
Ha.
It's like what Hans at Porsche Cars North Orlando told me...in a thick German accent...
"Deese vich people don't vant to feel das road oonder deir buttox. Day vant to feel like dey are on das couch vatching televichun. Day vouldn't know if day vere driving deir Cadivac off das road into und deetch."
Another funny story, happened, I swear, while I was sitter there waiting for my car at PC North Orlando...
Phone call comes in, Porsche tech (who I was talking too, who owns a cherry 88 924S) answers the phone...
"Yes sir...yes sir...no sir you don't need to leave it there sir. You can bring it in here if you'd like and we'll fix it for you, or you can do it yourself. No sir, there is nothing wrong with your car. Yes sir, it will be ok, the blinker is blinking really fast because one of the bulbs is out...no sir, you don't need a tow truck..."
It was a 2001 Boxster. My friend and I were on the ground rolling... We gave the tech props for not laughing while on the phone. He said he gets calls like that all the time...
11-04-2001, 04:35 PM
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Glad you guys all agree! I have spent countless hours under my cars. I know what makes them tick, I know how to fix them. I have worked many blue collar jobs, but my engineering background now allows me more options for employment. Bottom line is this: I drive what I drive because I love these cars. I like the quality, the heritage, the feel, etc. If Chevrolet made an as well build car as a Porsche, I would have no problems buying it.
11-05-2001, 05:53 AM
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Thaddeus, I am with you.
The limit was following:
Someone I know got hit in the back by a guy in a 911 just over a jear ago.
It was in rush hour traffic in the city centre of Amsterdam and the 911 driver was paying too much attention to his cell phone at that moment.
Filling in the insurance forms, as make of his car he wrote: PORSJE....
To balance it out, i know that there are a lot of people here that take an old 911, rusty to the bones, strip it up to the last part and go all the way in restoring it by themselves. They love the machine, dont care about the status.
The limit was following:
Someone I know got hit in the back by a guy in a 911 just over a jear ago.
It was in rush hour traffic in the city centre of Amsterdam and the 911 driver was paying too much attention to his cell phone at that moment.
Filling in the insurance forms, as make of his car he wrote: PORSJE....
To balance it out, i know that there are a lot of people here that take an old 911, rusty to the bones, strip it up to the last part and go all the way in restoring it by themselves. They love the machine, dont care about the status.
11-05-2001, 06:48 AM
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So, what position am I in?
Along with my friend Mike Adkins, I work on networks. A job where, if you study really hard on your own, and don't mind to work a little, it is a $85k - $100k+ job a year. We are the lucky ones. We bit the bullet and signed a few years of our life away. We took the gamble of getting any job anywhere in the world that could equal no money, but we got lucky. None the less, we will both be 25 and making big bucks.
Here is the problem. He is married, I'm not. He doesn't want to spend the bucks to get a 911 series car. I want to own a 996 one day, or whatever series is around in 4 years that is super nice. I want to own it because it is a very nice car. They handle like no other. One of a kind. BUT, it is also an eye catcher. Is that wrong to get looks? Is it wrong that I went to college and then the military and worked really hard. What if I can desquise myself into the upper class? I didn't have too much money when I was little, but does that mean that my 996 is just something that my parents bought me. No, but that is what people will assume. So, maybe I do ALSO own a 996 to bump me up the chain a little. Should I try to do it honestly and buy a chevy? No. Should I buy a 996 and snub the upper class? No.
I should be able to buy any car that I want and be me. I can talk to and hang out with anyone that I want. I know people that don't know squat about cars, but they own very nice ones. (hence, my best friend)However, they can drive like no other. So you don't understand the mechanics, some people aren't mechanically inclined, but they are smart in other ways. My brother, an accountant, is a prime example. He can have almost any car he wants, doesn't know jack about the car, just that it looks nice, is really fast, and drives great.
Anyway, people who buy cars just to up their class, thats their deal. They might have honestly worked hard to get there, or their parents may have bought it for them (mike's first truck, sorry mike).
Some people think you are stuck up because you try to look nice and own nice things. Do they ever see me in my cover-alls and grease covered hands? Probably not. Do they ever see mike working on his bike, eating a white-bread sandwich with the grease image of his hand on it. Only his wife.
Bottom line: I drive the car that I do because it drives great. It also LOOKS nice and says something about taste.
I wear the clothes that I do for the same reason. They are nice.
Remember the addige, don't judge a book by its cover. Cheesy, sorry, but true.
Along with my friend Mike Adkins, I work on networks. A job where, if you study really hard on your own, and don't mind to work a little, it is a $85k - $100k+ job a year. We are the lucky ones. We bit the bullet and signed a few years of our life away. We took the gamble of getting any job anywhere in the world that could equal no money, but we got lucky. None the less, we will both be 25 and making big bucks.
Here is the problem. He is married, I'm not. He doesn't want to spend the bucks to get a 911 series car. I want to own a 996 one day, or whatever series is around in 4 years that is super nice. I want to own it because it is a very nice car. They handle like no other. One of a kind. BUT, it is also an eye catcher. Is that wrong to get looks? Is it wrong that I went to college and then the military and worked really hard. What if I can desquise myself into the upper class? I didn't have too much money when I was little, but does that mean that my 996 is just something that my parents bought me. No, but that is what people will assume. So, maybe I do ALSO own a 996 to bump me up the chain a little. Should I try to do it honestly and buy a chevy? No. Should I buy a 996 and snub the upper class? No.
I should be able to buy any car that I want and be me. I can talk to and hang out with anyone that I want. I know people that don't know squat about cars, but they own very nice ones. (hence, my best friend)However, they can drive like no other. So you don't understand the mechanics, some people aren't mechanically inclined, but they are smart in other ways. My brother, an accountant, is a prime example. He can have almost any car he wants, doesn't know jack about the car, just that it looks nice, is really fast, and drives great.
Anyway, people who buy cars just to up their class, thats their deal. They might have honestly worked hard to get there, or their parents may have bought it for them (mike's first truck, sorry mike).
Some people think you are stuck up because you try to look nice and own nice things. Do they ever see me in my cover-alls and grease covered hands? Probably not. Do they ever see mike working on his bike, eating a white-bread sandwich with the grease image of his hand on it. Only his wife.
Bottom line: I drive the car that I do because it drives great. It also LOOKS nice and says something about taste.
I wear the clothes that I do for the same reason. They are nice.
Remember the addige, don't judge a book by its cover. Cheesy, sorry, but true.
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11-05-2001, 07:47 AM
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Back several decades ago, my family moved from ~flat land to the mountains of NC. A few years later, I took a job as a bank courier, driving for 40 hours a week, mostly in Ford pick-ups, mostly on two-lane mountain roads, always on a tight schedule, regardless of nasty weather or brainless tourists. By the time I quit that job, driving held _no_ pleasure for me.
I started to rediscover that pleasure just a bit when I bought a new '83 VW GTI. The process continued with an '89 Jetta GLI.
But I didn't finally fully heal
until I bought the '88 na. Once I got the tires, struts, and alignment right, I was on the road at every chance. It didn't matter if I didn't have a destination in mind... just the act of driving was excuse enough to burn some gas.
The 968 is just an extension of that pleasure. It may or may not be the perfect 944. It's close enough for me.
And yes, I do about 90% of my own wrenching. I'm not really sure that you actually 'own' a car you don't work on yourself.
My date & I were sitting in the restaurant parking lot last night, deciding what to do after supper. We were off-schedule for most movies; we wanted to see 'Monster, but it was 7:50, the movie started at 8:00 on the other side of town... she (jokingly) accused me of picking that movie just so I'd have an excuse to drive fast....hey, the thought never crossed my mind (uh, huh...).
Jim, drivin' & smilin'....
I started to rediscover that pleasure just a bit when I bought a new '83 VW GTI. The process continued with an '89 Jetta GLI.
But I didn't finally fully heal
until I bought the '88 na. Once I got the tires, struts, and alignment right, I was on the road at every chance. It didn't matter if I didn't have a destination in mind... just the act of driving was excuse enough to burn some gas. The 968 is just an extension of that pleasure. It may or may not be the perfect 944. It's close enough for me.
And yes, I do about 90% of my own wrenching. I'm not really sure that you actually 'own' a car you don't work on yourself.
My date & I were sitting in the restaurant parking lot last night, deciding what to do after supper. We were off-schedule for most movies; we wanted to see 'Monster, but it was 7:50, the movie started at 8:00 on the other side of town... she (jokingly) accused me of picking that movie just so I'd have an excuse to drive fast....hey, the thought never crossed my mind (uh, huh...).
Jim, drivin' & smilin'....
11-05-2001, 08:08 AM
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I have to admit guys that I never quite understand what is behind these discussions.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
Three major events saved Porsche,
1/. Elimination of all models except the 911
2/. Introduction of the Boxster
3/. Reducing suppliers from 900 to 300.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
Three major events saved Porsche,
1/. Elimination of all models except the 911
2/. Introduction of the Boxster
3/. Reducing suppliers from 900 to 300.
11-05-2001, 09:48 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thaddeus:
[QB]So Jim, did you make it to the movie?
As we say in the South, "Hail, yeah!" .. with time to spare... had to sit thru almost all of the previews.
And "Monsters" gets a four thumbs up. _Excellent_ 'puter animation, pretty good plot, great voices, etc. Of course, you have to enjoy kids' movies, but at least it wasn't a "chick flick"
....
And my date said the ride was "fun"....this may have possibilities...
Jim, "Plunk you magic twanger, Froggy!"
[QB]So Jim, did you make it to the movie?
As we say in the South, "Hail, yeah!" .. with time to spare... had to sit thru almost all of the previews.
And "Monsters" gets a four thumbs up. _Excellent_ 'puter animation, pretty good plot, great voices, etc. Of course, you have to enjoy kids' movies, but at least it wasn't a "chick flick"
.... And my date said the ride was "fun"....this may have possibilities...
Jim, "Plunk you magic twanger, Froggy!"
11-05-2001, 10:07 AM
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ecpunk:
So, what position am I in?
So, what position am I in?
Have the car because you like it, not because of what you think the next door neighbour will think of you...
11-05-2001, 06:02 PM
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At the same time you have to also respect people like me who know very little about what makes a car tick. I have never had a good understanding of mechanics and don't have time to learn now, but I still love Porsche cars and enjoy driving more than ever before since buying one.
For example I can play the guitar but that doesn't mean someone who can't play loves music any less than I do. In fact sometimes it's those people that have that different perspective to why the music is so good.
Sam.
For example I can play the guitar but that doesn't mean someone who can't play loves music any less than I do. In fact sometimes it's those people that have that different perspective to why the music is so good.
Sam.
11-05-2001, 08:46 PM
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When I was 17 I got my first Porsche, an 87 924S. At the time I wanted a 944 Turbo but couldn't afford it, and I had absolutely no clue what a turbo was. I saw one next to a black 959 at the 1986 Frankfurt Auto Show my dad took us to, and I wanted one. Actually, I had no clue "Porsche" was all that nice of a "name", because in Germany Mercedes, Bimmers, and Porsches are all over. I didn't really find that out until my dad, brother, and myself went up to Yorktown for a camping trip and took the 924, and people gawked (this was 1988 mind you).
Not knowing what a turbo was if it hit me in the head didn't make my desire for one any less, I don't think. I have learned alot since I was 17 about these cars, mostly from getting under the 924S with my dad and figuring things out.
All in all I agree with ecpunk, but I agree with everyone else too. I think everyone is yelling the same thing, just no one can hear over all the yelling.
Not knowing what a turbo was if it hit me in the head didn't make my desire for one any less, I don't think. I have learned alot since I was 17 about these cars, mostly from getting under the 924S with my dad and figuring things out.
All in all I agree with ecpunk, but I agree with everyone else too. I think everyone is yelling the same thing, just no one can hear over all the yelling.