Dan in Pasadena

Third attempt to post this. Hope it goes!

To John/Tim: How realistic is it to try to use this kit (@ Stage 2 or 3) on a daily driver? What are the hidden additional costs for an otherwise completely stock 944NA that "I-could-do-without-but-you-wouldn't-if-it-were-yours"?
Thanks in advance.

Danno

Or you can add the supercharger in series with the turbo like on the Lancia Delta S4/Integrale rall cars!

Andre

you said the 968 sc will be around the same as the S2 but there is no price for the S2. Any quotes on 968 sc yet?

Tye

Years ago a company in California made a "TwinCharger" kit for the MK1 Toyota MR2. Offered POWER on demand. Some guy with a silver MR2 still has one. There are pics floating around the Internet somewhere. A twincharged 944 is interesting...
Tye

brh986

"Or you can add the supercharger in series with the turbo like on the Lancia Delta S4/Integrale rall cars! "

That sounds rather ridiculous are you sure you're not just talking about twin turbo? I've never heard of a car with both a turbo and a supercharger?

Re: the mr2 kit
was it a super charger and a tuber or just a twin turbo?

re: eliminating lag...
You can tune a turbo to have almost no lag, especially a twin turbo... Also a turbo has more power to potential than a supercharger (or atleast so i've seen), I can't see hte point in spending all that cash to mess with a car that's already turbo - I've seen 944 turbos pushing 400+ hp.

Tabor

He is right. You can read more about it here.

TurboTim

To answer some questions......


The 3 year warranty is on the supercharger unit itself.Our turbos come with a one year warranty:^)

I was thinking about adding the supercharger to my car and not using a turbo at all.This means no boost controller, wastegate, dumptube, crossover pipe, downpipe, testpipe or turbo.No oil feed line or return, no watercooling pump and its associated plumbing,relays,etc.... Just the SC, a belt and a pulley along with the intercooler pipes. Simplicity.

Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com

John Anderson

Instigator,

You want speed, you'll have to sacrifice. Thats the deal :-) You want a cadillac, buy a cadillac, you want a fast car, you'll have to give up a few options!

As for the dyno sheets, you bet...as soon as we get the right pully....BAM, the sheets are up.

Anyone want to guess at the final numbers? I'll throw you a set of stainless fuel lines to the winner, closest to, without going over!

THe car will be running our stage three kit, maf, fPR, exhaust, turbo head (option), and ofcourse our SC kit.

Danno

Ok I'll take a shot, here's my guestimates (remember, I was 10hp away from John's dyno run):

For the 147hp 944na cars:

• Stage-1 @ 5psi = 178hp
• Stage-2 @ 7psi = 200hp
• Stage-3 @ 8psi = 214hp
• Stage-4 @ 10psi = 238hp

For the 155hp 944na cars:

• Stage-1 @ 5psi = 187hp
• Stage-2 @ 7psi = 210hp
• Stage-3 @ 8psi = 225hp
• Stage-4 @ 10psi = 250hp

And the 160hp 944na cars:

• Stage-1 @ 5psi = 194hp
• Stage-2 @ 7psi = 218hp
• Stage-3 @ 8psi = 233hp
• Stage-4 @ 10psi = 259hp

While these numbers will are hardly "... enough horsepower to blow away most modified 951's!", it's still quite a significant upgrade from ANY other option for the 944na cars like exhausts or air-cleaners.

TurboTim

We will also be dynoing the level 1 and 2 kits at the same time.This is the marvelous part about our kit.Within minutes we can convert the stage 1 into the stage 2.Within a few more minutes we can convert the stage 2 into the stage 3.

I know my little quote about beating up on a 951 has gotten a few people piturbed.the truth to the matter is that a N/A that can put out lets say 260 horsepower at the wheels can easily destroy a 951 making 300 at the wheels.Remember the N/A is much lighter.Power to weight ratio! Now to expand on this further.....This summer we dynoed a TurboS with the works......k-27/8, mass-flow, testpipe, wastegate, MBC, etc..... and it barely mustered up 259 horsepower at 18 psi. When we tuned it, it made 304 horsepower.Definitely not impressive at all!

Here are the power to weight ratios:
TurboS power to weight ratio-11 to 1(3300 lbs)
N/A power to weight ratio-10.38 to 1(2700lbs)


I think this is enough to blow away a modified 951 while running 10 psi less boost!

Tim
86 951 http://wwww.speedforceracing.com

keith

Ok, here's MY guess-timates (after VERY CAREFUL research):

For the 147hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 179hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 201hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 215hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 239hp

For the 155hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 188hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 211hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 226hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 251hp

And the 160hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 195hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 219hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 234hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 260hp

HAHAHA

(Danno, if I win, I'll split the hoses with you)

Mike B

Not knowing the exact environmental factors complicated my estimates but here they are...

For the 147hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 184hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 206hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 220hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 244hp

For the 155hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 193hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 216hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 231hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 256hp

And the 160hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 201hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 225hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 241hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 269hp

Danno

Interesting thing I noticed. Adding 2 or 3 psi to the supercharged-944na yields higher power-increases than doing the same to a 951.



Bench-testing with dyno-charts aside, it'd be interesting to finally be able to pit a 944 up against a 951 at the dragstrip or racetrack and have it not be silly, heh, heh...

adrial

My turbo S makes 260 at the wheels using a very conservative weight of 3150lbs plugged into the G-tech...

Only mods are listed below...14.5psi boost.

Granted my HP numbers may not be accurate...but I'm under the impression that the G-tech is a fairly accurate device.

My HP numbers follow along with farzaan's dyno day hp numbers.

How much weight would be lost by switching from a turbo to a SC? 50lbs? Not that I'd consider switching or anything :-p

I think an excellent determinant of performance is a 60-100 time or 60-120 or whatever...
So how about it? up for some 60-100 times? (directed to the SFR guys)
My 951S did it in 6.1 seconds...
method was starting at 50mph, flooring it, start the timer at 60mph...stop it at 100 obviously.

I reckon its time for a 951 vs. 944 SC war...hehe..

Matt O.

My shot. This is a shot in the dark. How about this - if I win you give me a Stage 1 kit? Sound good?

For the 147hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 209hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 222hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 243hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 273hp

For the 155hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 217hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 230hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 252hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 282hp

And the 160hp 944na cars:
Stage-1 @ 5psi = 222hp
Stage-2 @ 7psi = 235hp
Stage-3 @ 8psi = 266hp
Stage-4 @ 10psi = 301hp

Hey, what can you say I'm an optimist!!

-Matt