SFR supercharger kits are finished!
12-20-2001 | 01:50 AM
#76
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From: San Diego
hey Tim dont get bent on what i percieve as a non essential gadget. if you plan on racing them i'll be the first to root you on but, im not sur and i amsure you'll correct me, but putting a supercharger on a NA car would put you in a modified class and that alone is very limiting to the 944.
The 944 is a lightweight car.With some boost it could be competitive in a modified class.
as far as the root type needing an intercooler, you know it doesnt need one because of the design . the centrifugal on the other hand does because of
its nature of moving the air
Instigator, you need to do some more studying of superchargers. The roots type Eaton blowers produce the highest charge air temperature of all superchargers! It needs to be intercooled! The centrifugal blowers always produce a lower charge air temp then the roots blowers.
and the cores for an eaton are more availible now that more OEMs are turning to there type of supercharger. ive called up Magnuson, who handle the one off supercharger aspects of eaton and they have many configurations to choose from and they are $1200-$1300 for the charger new. besides that
i can get one from a ford super coupe off ebay for a couple hundred bucks then send it in for a rebuild. not to mention that the roots type is more effeciant(not needing to cool the discharge and less spool time than that of a centrifugal.
Where are you getting your info from becasue you have it all backwards. Our intercooler has a 87% efficiency when it is intercooled.Check around there is not roots blower that is cabale of this type of efficieny even with an intercooler! The only Roots blower that has increased "spool-up" time is the Whipplecharger. The Eaton is not a Whipple, so it will have a simliar "spool-up" time as a centrifugal unit.
Tim i like your product and i'm not trying to down grade it, please take it as constuctive criticism
Apparently you dont like it. You havent seen anything except for pictures and what you have read on our website and you have already made up your mind that our stuff is a novelty piece that was meant for a handful of street racers. I was just relaying the message to you that it is not a novelty but indeed a hard-core, one of the best bang for the buck mods you can do to your N/A car.It will be used on the street but it was orignally designed with racers in mind. Why do you think the A/C is deleted? We could have kept the A/C with some complex pulley arrangement but then it would have really been a novelty because no racer in their right mind would have attempeted to use it on the track.
There are also witnesses who have seen the kit personally and can vouch for the qaulity of it but that apparently has no merit in your eyes? Excuse me for being rather critical but you did light a match under my *** by saying our kit is novelty.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
The 944 is a lightweight car.With some boost it could be competitive in a modified class.
as far as the root type needing an intercooler, you know it doesnt need one because of the design . the centrifugal on the other hand does because of
its nature of moving the air
Instigator, you need to do some more studying of superchargers. The roots type Eaton blowers produce the highest charge air temperature of all superchargers! It needs to be intercooled! The centrifugal blowers always produce a lower charge air temp then the roots blowers.
and the cores for an eaton are more availible now that more OEMs are turning to there type of supercharger. ive called up Magnuson, who handle the one off supercharger aspects of eaton and they have many configurations to choose from and they are $1200-$1300 for the charger new. besides that
i can get one from a ford super coupe off ebay for a couple hundred bucks then send it in for a rebuild. not to mention that the roots type is more effeciant(not needing to cool the discharge and less spool time than that of a centrifugal.
Where are you getting your info from becasue you have it all backwards. Our intercooler has a 87% efficiency when it is intercooled.Check around there is not roots blower that is cabale of this type of efficieny even with an intercooler! The only Roots blower that has increased "spool-up" time is the Whipplecharger. The Eaton is not a Whipple, so it will have a simliar "spool-up" time as a centrifugal unit.
Tim i like your product and i'm not trying to down grade it, please take it as constuctive criticism
Apparently you dont like it. You havent seen anything except for pictures and what you have read on our website and you have already made up your mind that our stuff is a novelty piece that was meant for a handful of street racers. I was just relaying the message to you that it is not a novelty but indeed a hard-core, one of the best bang for the buck mods you can do to your N/A car.It will be used on the street but it was orignally designed with racers in mind. Why do you think the A/C is deleted? We could have kept the A/C with some complex pulley arrangement but then it would have really been a novelty because no racer in their right mind would have attempeted to use it on the track.
There are also witnesses who have seen the kit personally and can vouch for the qaulity of it but that apparently has no merit in your eyes? Excuse me for being rather critical but you did light a match under my *** by saying our kit is novelty.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
12-20-2001 | 11:44 AM
#78
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From: wind-swept heights...
Am I getting this right? If you go with the stage 1 you have to eighty-six the A/C?
Hmm... living in NC and taking trips to Florida often doesn't make me want to kill the A/C. What are the performance numbers on the with-A/C kit.
-Matt
Hmm... living in NC and taking trips to Florida often doesn't make me want to kill the A/C. What are the performance numbers on the with-A/C kit.
-Matt
12-20-2001 | 12:53 PM
#79
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Matt, don't you know that adding the SC will allow you to go fast enough to not need AC? 
Tim and John: it appears that you have done a GREAT job on the kit. It looks first class! It almost makes me want to get an early 944 to supercharge. That'd be a fun little car. As far as the negativity in this thread, you should ignore it. I think everyone who cares about the SC knows to trust both of your judgement before some other "expert's". After all, you two are the ones that have done your homework. Congrats on the kit.
Dave
Tim and John: it appears that you have done a GREAT job on the kit. It looks first class! It almost makes me want to get an early 944 to supercharge. That'd be a fun little car. As far as the negativity in this thread, you should ignore it. I think everyone who cares about the SC knows to trust both of your judgement before some other "expert's". After all, you two are the ones that have done your homework. Congrats on the kit.
Dave
12-20-2001 | 01:36 PM
#80
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From: Portland, OR
Originally posted by TurboTim:
<STRONG>As far as the Eaton goes, that is the novelty piece.It can not be intercooled(and if it can its going to be a plumbing nightmare) and ultimately it will not make as much power.</STRONG>
<STRONG>As far as the Eaton goes, that is the novelty piece.It can not be intercooled(and if it can its going to be a plumbing nightmare) and ultimately it will not make as much power.</STRONG>
12-20-2001 | 05:34 PM
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From: wind-swept heights...
Geeze where is this thread going?
I'd still like to know if I understand correctly that you have to kill the A/C if you want a SFR SC.
By the way, who's feathers did I ruffle - what happened to my 5 stars? Don't get your panties in a bunch...
-Matt
I'd still like to know if I understand correctly that you have to kill the A/C if you want a SFR SC.
By the way, who's feathers did I ruffle - what happened to my 5 stars? Don't get your panties in a bunch...
-Matt
12-20-2001 | 06:27 PM
#85
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I have a tendency to crack jokes when things are getting nasty in parties, staff meetings, etc. It breaks up the tension. (Also garners nasty stares from the combatants. Not a problem unless it's a VP.)
I don't know where you'd put a SC if you didn't lose the A/C.
Maybe the Turbo-to-SC kit could put the SC head unit more-or-less where the Turbo now goes, with a mini torque-tube running forward to the belt array. Then you could save the A/C. Waddayathink, Turbo Tim?
Another thing: do we have to start calling you "Super Tim"? It's not as alliterative, y'know.. but better, I suppose, than "Whipple Tim"...
Thaddeus
I don't know where you'd put a SC if you didn't lose the A/C.
Maybe the Turbo-to-SC kit could put the SC head unit more-or-less where the Turbo now goes, with a mini torque-tube running forward to the belt array. Then you could save the A/C. Waddayathink, Turbo Tim?
Another thing: do we have to start calling you "Super Tim"? It's not as alliterative, y'know.. but better, I suppose, than "Whipple Tim"...
Thaddeus
12-20-2001 | 06:48 PM
#86
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From: Asheville,NC (Don't move here!!!)
Matt, apparently the answer to your question is "yes" with this kit.
The A/C compressor has to go to make room for the alternator (a necessity), with the S/C going more-or-less where the alternator was. Packaging space around the front of the engine is kinda tight, so this kit takes the simpler route to accomplish an otherwise pricey objective. Adding a driveshaft to the front pulley array to take power to an under-the-manifold S/C would probably about double the development costs, increase the kit cost by 50%, and create an intake plumbing nightmare. It'd also weigh more, and likely add the cost of a custom or heavily modified manifold.
Personal opinion, they've done a _great_ job for the "go-fast at all costs" crowd. I have some reservations about engine life, but that's just a wait-and-see issue. For my daily driver, no thanks. No A/C isn't a happy option as I get older... But after we get some user reports, I would seriously consider this for a project car, instead of the 968 engine transplant.
Jim, who prefers to _continue_ getting older...
The A/C compressor has to go to make room for the alternator (a necessity), with the S/C going more-or-less where the alternator was. Packaging space around the front of the engine is kinda tight, so this kit takes the simpler route to accomplish an otherwise pricey objective. Adding a driveshaft to the front pulley array to take power to an under-the-manifold S/C would probably about double the development costs, increase the kit cost by 50%, and create an intake plumbing nightmare. It'd also weigh more, and likely add the cost of a custom or heavily modified manifold.
Personal opinion, they've done a _great_ job for the "go-fast at all costs" crowd. I have some reservations about engine life, but that's just a wait-and-see issue. For my daily driver, no thanks. No A/C isn't a happy option as I get older...
But after we get some user reports, I would seriously consider this for a project car, instead of the 968 engine transplant.Jim, who prefers to _continue_ getting older...
12-20-2001 | 07:06 PM
#87
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From: San Diego
Tabor,
STOP Saying this. It is untrue. Whipple sells an air-to-water intercooler designed by Garrett that can be used with Roots type compressors. A company that sells SC conversions should know a little about SC's.
I think you are making more enemies then friends with all 1380 of your posts! Maybe I should give you a brief little insight on air to air and air to water intercoolers.Most air to water intercoolers are highly efficient for a short time.This is why they are predominately used in qaurter mile type race cars.On top of this they also use ice.Water dissipates heat tremendously.However, when you have to use your existing cooling system or even a remote cooling systeme inside the engine bay this water will reach extreme temperatures! Typically it will operate at the same temperature of the cooling system(which is about 192F) on our cars.So now you have a air to water intercooler that is only capable of cooling the charge air to the actual temperature of the water.For example, 192F is what the charge air would be if it were used in our cars under normal driving conditions.192F is nowhere near as cool as an air to air unit can produce.Typically an air to air unit wil be about 10F above ambient temperature.
Another thing to consider is the fact that these air to water set-up have to be sandwiched between the charger and the manifold.In a big V-8 engine bay that will work fine but in our little Porsches, fitment is going to be a real issue! So now that we have this out of the way, the air to air unit is the most likely choice for a roots type blower that is to be driven on a regular basis.Again I must go back to the plumbing nightmare that will be required to do this.So next time you jump the gun on a subject you know little about, you should do a little more research.I am not trying to flame you but to inform you.Please do not get offended by this.I just hate to see information which is somewhat correct taken out of context, especially knowing very well that this water to air unit cannot be used in the application in which we are talking about.Take care.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
STOP Saying this. It is untrue. Whipple sells an air-to-water intercooler designed by Garrett that can be used with Roots type compressors. A company that sells SC conversions should know a little about SC's.
I think you are making more enemies then friends with all 1380 of your posts! Maybe I should give you a brief little insight on air to air and air to water intercoolers.Most air to water intercoolers are highly efficient for a short time.This is why they are predominately used in qaurter mile type race cars.On top of this they also use ice.Water dissipates heat tremendously.However, when you have to use your existing cooling system or even a remote cooling systeme inside the engine bay this water will reach extreme temperatures! Typically it will operate at the same temperature of the cooling system(which is about 192F) on our cars.So now you have a air to water intercooler that is only capable of cooling the charge air to the actual temperature of the water.For example, 192F is what the charge air would be if it were used in our cars under normal driving conditions.192F is nowhere near as cool as an air to air unit can produce.Typically an air to air unit wil be about 10F above ambient temperature.
Another thing to consider is the fact that these air to water set-up have to be sandwiched between the charger and the manifold.In a big V-8 engine bay that will work fine but in our little Porsches, fitment is going to be a real issue! So now that we have this out of the way, the air to air unit is the most likely choice for a roots type blower that is to be driven on a regular basis.Again I must go back to the plumbing nightmare that will be required to do this.So next time you jump the gun on a subject you know little about, you should do a little more research.I am not trying to flame you but to inform you.Please do not get offended by this.I just hate to see information which is somewhat correct taken out of context, especially knowing very well that this water to air unit cannot be used in the application in which we are talking about.Take care.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
12-20-2001 | 07:42 PM
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From: Portland, OR
Originally posted by TurboTim:
<STRONG>So next time you jump the gun on a subject you know little about, you should do a little more research.I am not trying to flame you but to inform you.Please do not get offended by this.I just hate to see information which is somewhat correct taken out of context, especially knowing very well that this water to air unit cannot be used in the application in which we are talking about.Take care.</STRONG>
<STRONG>So next time you jump the gun on a subject you know little about, you should do a little more research.I am not trying to flame you but to inform you.Please do not get offended by this.I just hate to see information which is somewhat correct taken out of context, especially knowing very well that this water to air unit cannot be used in the application in which we are talking about.Take care.</STRONG>
Edit- And I don't have 1380 posts.
12-20-2001 | 07:48 PM
#90
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From: Pasadena, CA
I don't know who is right or misinformed here. But I suspect that a kid is arguing with someone IN the automotive aftermarket forced induction business and that leads me to believe that it's now digressed into a face-saving "He said/She said" discussion with nothing to be gained for the board.