Alright... 95% sure I'll take the TEC-II Plunge
01-13-2002, 10:02 PM
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Alright... 95% sure I'll take the TEC-II Plunge
With the added size of the new turbo, fresh motor, port work, the need for some wiring, and also some chips to match the new flow of the turbo.. I think I will take a stab at the TEC-II.
I like the SDS unit, but I love the laptop interface. There is a hell of a lot more info you can get from it, and also plug into it!
Most everyone says that you cannot use the AC becuse of the mounting of the trigger wheel. I plan to find a way... some how.. to avoid that. Oh.. the price tag is a bit hard to swallow!
Please add your pro's and con's from what you know, and what you have heard.
Also.. I will offer up my hardly used Huntley MAF and ARC 2 controller, DME and KLR with APE stage 2 chips all for sale right here before posting to classifieds.
Contact me if you are intrested.
I like the SDS unit, but I love the laptop interface. There is a hell of a lot more info you can get from it, and also plug into it!
Most everyone says that you cannot use the AC becuse of the mounting of the trigger wheel. I plan to find a way... some how.. to avoid that. Oh.. the price tag is a bit hard to swallow!
Please add your pro's and con's from what you know, and what you have heard.
Also.. I will offer up my hardly used Huntley MAF and ARC 2 controller, DME and KLR with APE stage 2 chips all for sale right here before posting to classifieds.
Contact me if you are intrested.
01-13-2002, 10:28 PM
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Well...the stand alone thing has many advantages if you are planning on hard-tuning your car. The only downfalls are really $$$ and time. Everything else is better. People actually make highly modified rx-7's run reliably for thousands and thousands of miles because they can tune their car a lot tighter than the sloppy stock engine management, which, along with a couple of induction and fuel delivery design screw ups, is responsible for the motors blowing up. Also, it could give you an excuse to do what my friend did to his car:
He is getting a fuel/spark computer soon, but decided to do the computer in the mean time. Cool stuff. Let me know more about the stuff you may be selling.
He is getting a fuel/spark computer soon, but decided to do the computer in the mean time. Cool stuff. Let me know more about the stuff you may be selling.
01-13-2002, 10:30 PM
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01-13-2002, 10:38 PM
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Perry,
You can retain your a/c and your power steering with the TEC-II, if you do it right.We have dynoed a car and it has its a/c and power steering.It made 407 horsepower at the wheels at 18 psi.It made 325 horsepower at the wheels at 9.5 psi! I have yet to see any 951 come close to this at 9.5 psi of boost! Take a look at our website for more info on the TEC. We are also a distributor for Electromotive.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
You can retain your a/c and your power steering with the TEC-II, if you do it right.We have dynoed a car and it has its a/c and power steering.It made 407 horsepower at the wheels at 18 psi.It made 325 horsepower at the wheels at 9.5 psi! I have yet to see any 951 come close to this at 9.5 psi of boost! Take a look at our website for more info on the TEC. We are also a distributor for Electromotive.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
01-13-2002, 10:41 PM
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What the.. I remember the posts about that car.
I don't need all that jazz. I just want to tune it right!
As for the parts.. Pretty much the MAF sensor and ARC 2 controller. (Keeping the ARM 1 and K&N Filter for my setup). Also since I don't need the DME and KLR, I will sell that along with the APE Stage 2 Chips.
I don't need all that jazz. I just want to tune it right!
As for the parts.. Pretty much the MAF sensor and ARC 2 controller. (Keeping the ARM 1 and K&N Filter for my setup). Also since I don't need the DME and KLR, I will sell that along with the APE Stage 2 Chips.
01-13-2002, 11:14 PM
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In my experience, it is easier to tune a car if you have a graphical representation of the fields you need to change. Fuel maps, timing maps, etc need to be adjusted, and a numerical read-out is not easy to work with.
Not to mention that the TEC-II is far more powerful than the SDS. Yea, I'll use about 1/4 of the inputs, but I feel it is a more powerful kit.
I have had 3 very diffrent price quotes on it. Just the base system, no mounting blocks, pullies, nothing. Seems like they all should be about the same cost. The price diffrence should be the mounting kits... and SFR has the stuff I need there.
Not to mention that the TEC-II is far more powerful than the SDS. Yea, I'll use about 1/4 of the inputs, but I feel it is a more powerful kit.
I have had 3 very diffrent price quotes on it. Just the base system, no mounting blocks, pullies, nothing. Seems like they all should be about the same cost. The price diffrence should be the mounting kits... and SFR has the stuff I need there.
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01-16-2002, 12:47 AM
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Well I thought we would of received more information in this thread! Since we didn't I have a question. Does the TEC-II act as an electronic boost controler also? Perry if you receive more information about this product it would be nice if you could pass it along.
01-16-2002, 11:49 AM
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If I had more time I would have made a long post regarding all the features of the TEC.Unfortunately, time in ot on my side right now.However, there is a tone of information on our website under engine management.It should annswer most of your questions.
BTW, you can use the TEC to control boost(or nitrous,fans,additional injectors,etc...) with the use of an electronic solenoid.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speeedforceracing.com
BTW, you can use the TEC to control boost(or nitrous,fans,additional injectors,etc...) with the use of an electronic solenoid.
Tim
86 951 http://www.speeedforceracing.com
01-16-2002, 01:23 PM
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hey ribs:
in looking at the pics of your friends pc-in-car installation, i noticed he's using a standard 120VAC power supply. As someone who has spent many months in the past trying to make a sophisticated PC based data acquisition system run off 12VDC i'm interested to know how he got that to work... most automotive inverters give you square wave AC (as opposed to sine wave) which will wreak havoc on all kinds of electronics, even stuff not connected to it. (square wave => high frequency noise). Any idea how he hooked it up??
in looking at the pics of your friends pc-in-car installation, i noticed he's using a standard 120VAC power supply. As someone who has spent many months in the past trying to make a sophisticated PC based data acquisition system run off 12VDC i'm interested to know how he got that to work... most automotive inverters give you square wave AC (as opposed to sine wave) which will wreak havoc on all kinds of electronics, even stuff not connected to it. (square wave => high frequency noise). Any idea how he hooked it up??
01-16-2002, 03:52 PM
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Posted prev. by perry951
The primary tuning tool for any EMS is an air/fuel meter and the the integrated afm for the SDS system is as simple a graphic representation of that ratio as you can get.
Albeit the timing info is digital, but most of us are familiar with those values as digits, e.g. 32 degrees and etc.
In my experience, it is easier to tune a car if you have a graphical representation of the fields you need to change.
Albeit the timing info is digital, but most of us are familiar with those values as digits, e.g. 32 degrees and etc.
01-16-2002, 09:42 PM
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Uh Perry? I know this is off topic but how much power do you think your car will make at the flywheel when all this is said and done with? Just curious........and jealous... 
01-17-2002, 02:31 AM
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Russ,
I think what Perry was trying to say it is easier to look at 3-D maps on a laptop then a bunch of numbers on a 1" x 2" LCD readout.When you alter the 3-D maps you can see changes in the entire curve apposed to only having the ability to see numbers on a little lcd screen.It is very easy to find peaks and valleys with 3-D mapping.It is much more difficult when you have to scroll through different rpms and boost ranges and visually interpolate some sort of map, curve, etc... in your mind, then it is to see it in front of you on a nice color monitor.Is this what you meant, Perry?
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
I think what Perry was trying to say it is easier to look at 3-D maps on a laptop then a bunch of numbers on a 1" x 2" LCD readout.When you alter the 3-D maps you can see changes in the entire curve apposed to only having the ability to see numbers on a little lcd screen.It is very easy to find peaks and valleys with 3-D mapping.It is much more difficult when you have to scroll through different rpms and boost ranges and visually interpolate some sort of map, curve, etc... in your mind, then it is to see it in front of you on a nice color monitor.Is this what you meant, Perry?
Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com
01-17-2002, 11:42 AM
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That is exactly what I ment. Seeing the dips and valleys is easier for me to understand what is happening rather than seeing... -4deg -2deg -1.5deg +7.4deg -3.3deg, ETC.
As far as power... I'd like to see 330hp at the wheels, 380tq. That was my goal 2 years ago when I started all this. I fell short on the 1st (well, 3rd attempt) at 280hp, 300tq. Most of it was the turbo I was running. Great spool up, but not enough flow to get the power up.
I am still tetering on the purchase. It is a load of cash, and this is becoming more and more expensive as the days go on. However, if ever there was a time to do it, it is now.
One of my concerns was daily driveability. I bought and built this car to drive every day. I liked the setup I had (Rebuilt top end, Huntley Cheater 2, APE Stage 2', AFR, Deltagate, Stage 1 MAF, 18psi). It was a great driver. I did have a problem on cooler days where I would need to richen up the ARC 2 at start up to prevent a lean condition and get it to idle well. Once warm, back it off a notch and it was great. It seems like it had no temperature compensation.
With a stand alone system, you can pretty much program out things like that. Also, with the addition of a SFR stage 3 turbo, I will most likely need chips (other than the APE stage 2's). They are not cheap at all.
So what do I do? Spend the $500 bones on the chips and see how it runs, or drop $4000 into the TEC-II?
The other big factor is that I will paint the car as well before it goes back together. Using OEM paint, it is expensive. My plan was to rebuild the car from the fire usinge the money from my settlement. That would leave me with about $1000, then take that and another $1000 and fully rebuild the motor.
Decisions Decisions!!!
As far as power... I'd like to see 330hp at the wheels, 380tq. That was my goal 2 years ago when I started all this. I fell short on the 1st (well, 3rd attempt) at 280hp, 300tq. Most of it was the turbo I was running. Great spool up, but not enough flow to get the power up.
I am still tetering on the purchase. It is a load of cash, and this is becoming more and more expensive as the days go on. However, if ever there was a time to do it, it is now.
One of my concerns was daily driveability. I bought and built this car to drive every day. I liked the setup I had (Rebuilt top end, Huntley Cheater 2, APE Stage 2', AFR, Deltagate, Stage 1 MAF, 18psi). It was a great driver. I did have a problem on cooler days where I would need to richen up the ARC 2 at start up to prevent a lean condition and get it to idle well. Once warm, back it off a notch and it was great. It seems like it had no temperature compensation.
With a stand alone system, you can pretty much program out things like that. Also, with the addition of a SFR stage 3 turbo, I will most likely need chips (other than the APE stage 2's). They are not cheap at all.
So what do I do? Spend the $500 bones on the chips and see how it runs, or drop $4000 into the TEC-II?
The other big factor is that I will paint the car as well before it goes back together. Using OEM paint, it is expensive. My plan was to rebuild the car from the fire usinge the money from my settlement. That would leave me with about $1000, then take that and another $1000 and fully rebuild the motor.
Decisions Decisions!!!
01-17-2002, 12:28 PM
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posted prev. by perry951:
Please, please don't take offense, but the answer seems simple. $1100.00 for the SDS.
$2900.00 for visualizing the timing as curves
seems to be somewhat steep. Again, I wish you success with your goal of a drivable 330rwhp no matter how you get there, this is just my 2 cents and you know what they say about free advice.
Seeing the dips and valleys is easier for me to understand what is happening rather than seeing... -4deg -2deg -1.5deg +7.4deg -3.3deg, ETC.
Spend the $500 bones on the chips and see how it runs, or drop $4000 into the TEC-II?
$2900.00 for visualizing the timing as curves
seems to be somewhat steep. Again, I wish you success with your goal of a drivable 330rwhp no matter how you get there, this is just my 2 cents and you know what they say about free advice.