Pamela

I have been perusing many classifieds for 944's over the past few days. Thinking myself to be somewhat intelligent, I am puzzled by the terms "MOON ROOF" and "SUN ROOF"???? Could someone please explain the difference between the two, if any, as where I am originally from we call it a "SUN ROOF".

Black_951

944 tops are generally referred to as sunroofs but really they are targa tops or "t-tops" if you are accustumed to American cars. The whole section comes off and can be stored in the back. There should be a leather case to put it in.

Most 911's have the traditional sunroof that slides back into the roof but they are much smaller than a targa top.

I believe a moonroof would be like a glass top that may or may not be removable. You can buy aftermarket glass tops for our cars but they are expensive and were not a factory option.

Mark944na86

What are ya... a sanger short of the full picnic?

If you're driving during the day, it's a sunroof. If you're driving at night, it's a moonroof. Stone the crows.

-Mark 86 944 NA

TimC

"Sunroof" means solid metal (or fiberglass, in the 944's case) - i.e. can't see through it. "Moonroof" means clear (glass usually) panel. That's all there is to it.

T

TimC

Wow, simultaneous reply mode here. At any rate, I hate to say it, but "Black951" is incorrect. A targa top means the roof is removable (usually between A and B pillars) with no roof structure crossing the gap. Example: 914, older 911 Targa, Ferrari 308 GTS. A T-top is the same but has a bar down the middle - which helps with torsional rigidity over a targa top, but not by much. A sunroof/moonroof is a sliding or removable panel with surrounding roof structure all round. This typically results in no or negligible loss of torsional rigidity - in the 944's case, it's actually improved due to reinforcement involved - "How about that!"

This means that the later 911 Targa that had the big sliding panel is technically not a targa at all, but can in fact lay claim to having the "mother of all moonroofs."

T

Black_951

I formed the basis of my targa theory precisely on the 911 Targa that you described. I am not surprised to be wrong but I am sure I have seen the 944 top referred to as a targa in one of the Porsche books.

I will check it out as I believe this to be an important little bit. Perhaps if anyone has any factory literature or dealer invoices that precisely state "sunroof" or "targa top" as standard equipment that would be great and clear up my conscious.

I assume the top was standard. I have never seen a 944 without one though I kinda wish they did. The top looks great off, but when the its on the cutout seems to break up the clean lines of the roof.

Speaking of Ferrari, I really like the look roof lines of the 308/328 Coupes. No sunroof there. Which also reminds me. The Ferrari 308/328 models with the targa tops were called 308 Spyders, not targas.

Dave

A spyder is a 2 place open car. I'm not sure if it is different than a roadster or speedster. Although Tim C's definitions match what I have always heard, I too have seen the top of a 944 listed as a targa, but as the top was named after the model on which it first appeared, it should be as found on the early models. My panel is metal.

jim968

Well, just to add to the confusion, I looked in the owner's manual (gasp!) in my 968... the factory (or their translator) calls it a "removable / electric prop-up roof." Unfortunately, the spare copy of the owner's manual for my old '88 944 is currently adrift somewhere in the house, so I don't know what they called it then, but it was exactly the same physically, mechanically, & electrically.

To further the confusion, here's my understanding of the other terms being bandied about in this thread:

Targa top: a removeable, generally rigid panel, that spans from the top of the driver's window across to the top of the passenger's window, and from the top of the windshield back to the roll bar / rear roof panel. Sort of a hard-topable substitute for a convertible, with more security & less body flex.

T-tops: American muscle car term, for twin removable roof panels, starting at the top of the side windows, but not quite fully spanning the roof; creates an opening over each front seat. Named for the shape of the remaining roof sheet metal that divides the two openings.

Sunroof/ moonroof.... in the early '80's, I bought & installed three of the dang things; a tinted glass panel that tilted up at the back, and could be removed. All were called "sunroofs" by the vendor.

I think "moonroof" is a Madison Ave. advertising term, just used to make buyers think there's something special about their sunroof....

Jim, "Owner's manual? We don't need no stinkin' owner's manual!"

Tabor

I just though I should point out that I was once told that in Europe, the 944 sunroof is often refered to as a Targa Top.

Whether or not it is correct, it is a commonly used term for the 944 sunroof, at least in Europe.

Untier

pamela, anyways the darn thing doesnt open enough to see out of unless its taken all the way off, which would be a pain for a small female. and once its off the seat has to all the way back and reclined to actually see. some of the 944s had plastic, early and some had glass, late. ive never heard anything good about either of these except how much the seller made on it. the metal, usually stock, seems to be fine for most anyone, if that what you want. but sun or moon?

Black_951

This is what I found about the term spider:

Now that I think about Ferrari does only use Spyder to describe their open topped two-seaters. The four-seater open Mondial is referred to as a Cabriolet. Coupes are called Berlinettas.

Adam Richman

Black951, that was my understanding of the Ferarri as well (GTS/GTB/Cab).

I had always thought that a moonroof was the glass popup top and the sunroof opened fully (be it by removal or sliding back). The Toyota Tercel (when it first came out) was listed with a Moon Roof and my Honda Civic had a Sun Roof. The former was a glass panel that manually could be popped up only. The latter had a roof that popped up and fully retracted. This might not be the meaning of the term but it is what I visualize when I hear the two terms.

Also, I didn't know that T-Tops were an American car thing, I had always thought the 280 ZX was the first?

Lugnutty

Ok, a couple of notes here:
No 924/944/968 series cars ever came from the factory with glass sunroofs. There was a company called Saratoga Tops that supplied aftermarket glass sunroofs. They now are either out of business or out of the business of supplying glass sunroofs for Porsches.

It was always my understanding that a sunroof is opaque and a moonroof is transparent.

The first Camaro/Firebird with T-Tops was the 1970 model. Corvette, on the other hand, featured T-Tops from their 1969 model. The first Z that I can personally think of that had removable roof panels was the 280ZX, which didn't appear on the scene until something like 1976. The 300ZX, Nissan Pulsar and NX2000, and Toyota MR2 all featured T-Tops through the '80s and '90s.

As for Targa tops... Targa is a trademark of Porsche AG, so technically, a Targa is anything that Porsche wants it to be. It's a common misconception to call a C4 Corvette, a Toyota Supra, Fiat X1/9, or an Acura NSX-T a "Targa". Only Porsche and those licensed by Porsche can lay claim to this name.
-Jon
'94 968
'84 928
et al

rangelica

According to my '86 literature, depending on your option it is either a "Electric Sliding Roof" a Removable/Flip up Sunroof" or a "Removable sunroof with electric tilt"

Rick

'86 951 with one ot the above options

Eric

jon968,

Right on about the Vette, but the first Camaro to offer the T-tops was the 78. The first Firebird was I believe the 76. A variety of others offered the T-top also--Dodge Magnum, Olds Gutless, Early 80's Mustangs, etc., etc.
Also, good call on Porsche owning the "Targa" name. It came about with their early efforts to produce a 911 cab., they created the soft-window Targa for better structural rigidity and better roll-over protection than a full-bore cab. which didn't come about on the 911 until 1983.
black951,
some 944s don't have the sunroof, they are somewhat scarce, but they are out there which makes me wonder, was "sunroof delete" an option, or was the "sunroof" the option(if, so it was obviusly popular) Anyone know

Eric with a sunroof, moonroo, whatever ya call it