angus 944s

I have been using a lot of anti-freeze. I have redone the head , replaced the waterpump,the rad and I am still losing anti-freeze . I don't have a puddle under the car nor I do see white exhaust. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks

Tabor

Do you have oil in your antifreeze? Do you have a 924S/944/944S? If so it is probably your oil cooler seals.

You can get a new set from Pelican Parts for $37.90 Here.

This is a common failure point. You can see it in the FAQ.

cbr2@softhome.net

I concur. Oil in coolant is oil cooler seals(usually), or cooler burst or inner cooler housing...
Coolant in the oil is head gasket...

This is a common failure point. You can see it in the FAQ.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Tabor

It has been know to go both directions (with the oil-cooler seals).

TimC

Yes, Tabor's correct. With bad oil cooler seals you can get oil in coolant or the opposite. Very fortunately in most cases, it's far easier for the oil to go into the water, as the oil system functions at 2-5 bar as opposed to approx. 1.5 bar for the water system. When the car is turned off however (or is hot and the oil pressure is down near 2) the flow can go the other way, which is Very Bad. Oil in coolant - system just needs thorougly flushed. Coolant in oil - instant rust of all kinds of stuff (I'm not expert here, just trying to recall what mechanic said when my oil cooler seals went bad) such as bearings. Yikes. So, you'll definitely want to remedy the situation asap.

Tim

angus 944s

Thanks ;

I will replace the oil cooler seals i have some time to work on the car due to unfortunate meeting with a fire hydrant
Angus

IceShark

angus, if you are losing coolant to the oil system you should be able to see it. But there is a very easy way to tell - get your oil tested.

Costs 15 bucks or less and it will have a bunch of other usefull information to boot. Won't help you on where it is happening though.

Lamah

how neccisary is it to get bearings replaced ? my car has been getting coolant in the oil for quite some time and i cant really afford a engine rebuild. what kinds of risks are there with not replacing all the bearings ?

Tabor

You risk spinning a rod bearing and having a connecting rod punch through your cylinder wall.

You don't have to take the engine out to replace the rod bearings. They can be accessed by removing the oil pan. But what about the Main bearings? I don't know.

keith

Main bearings require an engine pull, I believe (but I may be wrong...)

Before you do all that, check/replace your resevoir cap. If the spring is weak, it will boil over while you are driving, you'll never see it...

keith

wait - did you say you DID have oil in the antifreeze?

rplencne

Early this spring we lost ALL the coolant into the crankcase. The car was probably run about 10 minutes when this problem unfolded. The car was actually on the way to the shop to get the oil cooler seals replace. The shop said the head gasket was gone, so we towed the car home.

Initial removal/inspection of the oil cooler suggested that it could very well have been the culprit. But, with 175k miles on the motor (plus 10 minutes of running with an oil/coolant mix) ... not to mention the major oil leaks from misc seal in the fron ... we figured it would be best to do a complete rebuild. Before we tore it down, a compression test suggested that the head gasket was probably OK, but the midde two exhaust valves were leaking significantly. After pulling the head we could really tell if it was blown ... definately old ... but didn't appear to be blown.

I was surprised that the bearings actually looked pretty good. At least there wasn't any brass showing on the bearing surfaces. The only bearing issue was the thrust bearing. It was worn on the thrust surface, causing a lot of end play. All-in-all, I don't think the oil/coolant mix hurt the bearings much, if at all in our case.

So, depending on how many miles are on the car, I'd start with just doing the oil cooler seals and flush the system to make sure you've got all the coolant out of the oiling system. Then see how it runs and how it sounds. Listen for any knocking from the bottom end. If you do have any suspicious sounds coming from the bottom, drop the suspension and oil pan and take a look at a rod bearing or two. Then go from there. If the rod bearings look really bad, you'll want to do the mains too, meaning you'll probably just want to rebuild the whole thing. IF the rod bearings don't look too bad just replace them if you're on a limited budget. Have the oil tested a bit later if you only do the rod bearings ... this would help you monitor the health of the main bearings and any other bushings (cam and b-shafts)

You could do the mains with the engine still in, but it wouldn't be easy, and I wouldn't suggest it (the crankshaft is VERY heavy). You'd stil have to seperate the clutch housing to get the shaft out of the pilot bearing, and you'd have to pull the oil pump (I think). Better to have it out on an engine stand if you want to go that far.

Again, the current miles on the engine might help you decide. If it's got low miles (less than 100K) you might be able to get away with just the cooler seals and cleaning things up. If you've got high miles (in the 175K miles area ... +/-) you might want to consider freshening every thing up.

Good luck,
Bob P.