PSUice944

... in traffic on my way to the Pirate game (who knew they could play at times?) my temp was sitting at the upper portion of the upper white mark... TOO CLOSE for my comfort to the RED!

My fans sounded like they were running hurricane speed too, and I'm pretty sure they are running the proper direction. The system is bled too, checked that a while ago. The waterpump should be fine, it was replaced with a "newer" one in my re-build.

Why am I running so warm? I don't want some lower temp fan switch, cuz I don' think that will solve anything as with the hurricane speed, the temp wasn't dropping until I got moving!

Is my thermostat toasted, or toasting? Should I get my system flushed real good? Redline water wetter? Raise my water/antifreeze ratio (probably now ~1:1)? Honestally, I think its running a bit warm all the time but it was bugging me in traffic, and I'm sure I'll see more of that!

TIA,

dwygrsshpr

If you were stopped in traffic that is pretty normal. I have the same condition. Highway driving I am at the first hash mark or lower. As soon as I get off highway and into city driving the temp needle raises to the second hash until the fans kick in. They hold the temp right at the second hash mark. Yes, they are humming, but that is because there is no [ram] air flow into the radiator. As soon as traffic moves again they kick off and the neddle falls back to where it should. I keep a constant eye on that gauge (as you should anyway in the summer). And it IS summer time - the hood soaks up a lot of heat from the sun and the noise insulation is also a heat insulation. It will run warmer.

FWIW....

MadMax

PSUice944,
I've not encountered this problem. I live in Annapolis and even in traffic my temp remains right in the middle cutting the gage in half. I am NOT sure but it seems to me that there might be air in both of your systems or you thermostats are failing. I am curious either way. It doesn't seem normal to me. Like I say, I am NOT sure. Would love to see more info on this subject.

Regards,
Max

jim968

FWIW, I live in the South... 6 years with an '88 944, and now over a year with a '94 968. Both ran on or maybe a needle-width above the lower hash mark, pretty much all the time, except when the thermostat was failing.

IMHO, if you're sure the system is bled of air, the fans are working, and the pressure cap is good, I'd replace the thermostat next.
It's not expensive, is a known failure point, and gives you an opportunity to replace the anti-freeze.

But get the good angle-tip internal snap-ring pliers _before_ you start!!!

Jim, gotta be one of Porsche's dumber bits of engineering.... but that's another thread....

Tabor

You could just need a new radiator.

PSUice944

Hmmmmmmm,

Well, Radiator is last re$ort. I've only seen it hit red once and that was at the track with a bra on the car, so that shouldn't be the problem.

Thermostat? Yeah, this may be it, I need to do a Performance Products order, perhaps I'll order their lower temp one.

I'm getting this vibe that bubbles don't work their way out of the system, and that my coolant is a bit heavy on the antifreeze (less effective). Pressure is fine AFAIK as there are no puddles below the expansion tank.

So I'm gonna bleed the heck out of the system, getting some more water in there.

And how do I get all the air out? Yes I know about the bleed screw and all, but do I need to tilt the car or "pressure" bleed from the expansion tank?

All tips and tricks appriciated, I think I found something to do after work!

Skip

Milk it! Seriously, (with engine cool, not cold) loosen the bleed valve and milk the hose like you would a cow... wait for the gurgleing to subside, then, turn heat on and up, start engine, let run for 10-20. Repeat process. Listening closely to the glovebox area can sometimes clue you in to the amount of air in the system (heater core).

However, it sounds like your problem is a bit more involved. Most likely a thermostat failure (in most cases the engine will NOT overheat with a failed thermostat... it will only run hot). The notion of the Temp needle getting close to the top of its' limit is NOT normal. It is a condition of the overall coolant system being in some state of disrepair. Though many folks live with it because the fix is less than a science... it is NOT normal. A complete overhaul of the cooling system... including thermostat, fan check, pressure chemical flush, radiator cleaning (inside and out), and proper refill should fix any problem. Some things to watch out for even when done with all this is the milk-shake. Oil in the water from either the head or the oil-cooler.

For more detail on flushing see the Tech-Session article:
944 coolant flush

Good Luck!

PSUice944

Dangit Skip, you the man!

New lo-temp thermostat and replacement strut haggling tonight with PP.

Plus I think I go out to the barn and milk the car

Don't worry, Paragon will get my business one of these days!

IceShark

Another thing to consider is bent and clogged fins on the radiator or A/C core.

As I mentioned on the old list I found all sorts of crap pasted to the fins, including a condom! Look at the radiator from the front vents and see what shape it is in.

I took off my underbelly pans to get good access and combed out the fins with a homemade wire hook. There was an amazing amount of crap and crushed fins I combed out. Doing this project with a 6 pack of beer helps. My low speed temps dropped dramatically.

I believe the situation is if the radiator has poor airflow the fans can't drag enough air over the fins but at high rolling speeds enough flows through to overcome the basic inefficiency. The rad is nearly hidden so who looks to see what hits it has taken?

This is different than the other recent problem post where the temps were doing a rollercoaster act. In that situation it seemed like once the fans kicked on they could lower the temp to normal. So a thermoswitch issue.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Dan ]

dwygrsshpr

Mea Culpa All! It seems as though I have made an err due to my own pre-conceptions! I am now going to go through my cooling system and check everything. I always thought that it was just the nature of the beast to climb in temperature while sitting at a stoplight after pounding down the highway. $25 worth of thermostats vs an overheated engine is a piddly price to pay. Thank you all for your many posts - you have done me a service!

One of the many reasons why I love this board!

gone to keep cool.......

PSUice944

Ahhh, and now I got to mess with the thing!

So, "milking" the hose, no internal gurgles, only in the expansion tank, so the system should be plenty bled.

"Cleaning" of the radiator fins, the fins do (of course, northeastern winter!) have some small debris, but few bent sections, no other blocking junk like leaves, I'd say it should be at least at 90% capicity.

And now how does the system work, because when I got home from work, the upper hose was plenty hot, as I assume the lower ones were too...

Does this mean there was coolant flowing to my radiator? Or can they still get hot with a stuck thermostat?

I don't know jack about where or how to replace my thermostat (nor do I have a replacement yet), but I'm beginning to think that may be the culprit.

Thoughts?

PSUice944

ding-back to the top...

so hows that thermostat work?

will the hoses heat up w/o water getting to the radiator?

rangelica

A Condom??!!! Where were you driving???

IceShark

LOL! Yup, I was pretty surprised myself. It was in your neck of the woods when I lived in Chicago.

MadMax

PSUice944,
Not positive on the 944 but almost every American (please forgive)car I have ever worked on a "hot" upper radiator hose was indicative of either a failing water pump or thermostat. Almost always a thermostat. Heat rises and tends to collect in the top to the radiator, the overflow, and the upper radiator hose. I would consider replacing both the larger lower hose and upper hose when you do the thermostat (IF they have gotten really hot). Meaning, if they got so hot that it would hurt to just touch them, they need to be replaced. Those hoses were not really intended to get that hot on a 'regular' basis. As always, this is just my opinion. I usually live by what was said previously,
.

Good luck,