J Berk

Damian

Somewhere I have info that my S2 was built at Porsche...it is one of the later 1991's.

It is definately far more solid than my early car was.....but I do agree...it lacks variocam, a 6 speed and a few other things.

The headlights are subjective. I do happen to like them (I will own a 968 at some point)....some don't. My S2 headlights work great...clean wiring and the right bulbs do the trick....an old Iceshark kit would make em even better.

To the OP....if you can find the right 968 Cab that's what I'd get....but don't rule out an S2 cab if you find one that's been well maintained. They are great cars !

odurandina

once you remove the cat and the terrible stock muffler. the variocam becomes the 968 unplugged.

i'm pushing up on 250 hp. not turbo land mind you, but still pretty good.

and the sound on those long trips. the music is ok, but the engine sounds better.



an S2 isn't bad in the looks dept. dated, sure, but, as with the 944, the overall shape of the car is very, very good.... still, everyone on the '44 forums talks about people asking them about their retro Porsches.... about how people mostly are respectful, curious or, offering the standard, 'i always thought those cars were cool....still, others sometimes rib them them about the cars not being a real Porsche..... or even saying 'it's really a Volkswagon, right ?'

the idea of a real, bonafide retro-Porsche with the J-Lo hips works well, imo.

all the better if you smoke them with a V8 chevy packed under the hood.


the 968 is rarely if ever accused of not being a real Porsche. or a retro-Porsche... or VW... new ? ummm no, not that either..... yes, some people have said, 'wow, is that a 944 ?' yes, this has, in fact, happened a few times, but with a noticably different undertone.... but most people say, 'hey, i know that car man !! it's a 928..... like Tom Cruise had with that hot chick in Risky Business !!' this has happend about 150 times.... and that Risky Business car is never accused of not being a real Porsche. people think my car is faster than it actually is.


ricers do try to race me on occasion, but for the most part, motorists are courteous about my car when we're in the passing lane... and as long as i don't tailgait them, they're prone to get out of the way.... at intersections, they're more apt to be neutral.... they were never like that with my 944 back in the day.... don't know why, but on out on the roads, it was like they effin' hated that thing.


now ? after the front end work ?

fogettaboutitt... they all get the hell out of my way.

rap

Do your research, buy the best you can afford and do a PPI

Nandle

Thanks for all of the feedback, and opinions. For the life of me I cannot figure out why I never "saw" the 968 before. It was like a movie scene where a ray of light came down from the heavens illuminating the car...campy yes- but not far from the truth. I am definitely leaning toward the 968.

I called a buddy of mine (who totaled his 87' 911 last year after owning it for 6 months) to get the name of the local Porsche Mechanic Guru. Figuring whatever I end up with he will be the one working on it (while I hone- ok develop- my mechanic skills) I gave him a call to pick his brain and told him I was leaning toward the 968. He said great choice and gave me pointers as well.He also said the 944 was a great car- but based on our conversation felt the 968 might be more in line for what I was looking for. He confirmed what I was already feeling- that purchasing from someone who had service records at the very least- and preferably from a vehicle owner. He also suggested getting the names of the shops where the vehicles are services and calling them as well .This eliminates most of the dealer listings.

So now that I have a strategy in place, my next question- aside from this forum, Pelican parts , Ebay and Hemmings are there any other classified or good sites for me to search? I know there are no vehicles locally- so whatever iI end up with might be a combination leap of faith as well as serious telephone time. Thanks!

Sentinelist

You can effectively shop the planet as long as you have a solid PPI and mechanic afar on your side. Either choice is a good one. I'm still smitten with the Turbo I found in Nashville a year ago that I flew out to close on and drive home. Enjoy the trip too! Just take your time in making the right selection- my process from start to finish took 3 weeks.

Chunkerz

S2>968>Boxter in my opinion. Boxters are just plain fugly and have no rear seats, so you have to store your passengers in the trunk. With the 968 I'm not a fan of the 928 style headlights. They make the car look bug eyed. I think the rear of the 968 looks better, but that's about it (just toss a Euro rear bumper on the S2 and it will look just as good). The 968 mirrors look good as well, but don't offer as much visibility as the mirrors on the S2, so that's another turn off for me. I don't know much about the Variocam in the 968, but to me it just seems like one more thing to worry about/go wrong. Simplicity and ease of maintenance are more important than power to me (which is why I have a base NA). The interiors are roughly the same as far as I know, so there isn't really an advantage to the 968 interior, other than possibly being less beat up because its a few years newer.

Whichever one you get, make sure you inspect/replace the cam chain tensioner pads right away (unless the maintenance history you will hopefully receive with the car says they were recently serviced). I hear cylinder heads for the S2/ 968 are expensive.

67King

I don't especially like cabs, but I find the 968's to be just plain ugly. They look like frogs. And yes, I own one. And my experience owning it is not the same as reported here. The only person to comment on it called it "old school." So now it looks like an old frog.

Differences between the two. The 968 does feel a little faster, but you have to wind it out. The 6 speed is way overrated, and at least on the track, the S2's gearing is more ideally spaced (this is analytical, based on torque curves and gearing, not a "seat of the pants" assessment). Also on the track, I've not driven an S2, but I've driven the 968 and my Turbo when it was still a street car. The 968 feels HEAVY. Maybe that is influenced by my progression, and lightening of the race car, but I do not recall the Turbo feeling nearly as heavy as does the 968.

I find no appreciable difference in build quality. However, the closer to mass production a car is, the better built it will be. Spend any time looking at a Ferrari, and you'll realize that (especially if you can follow them from older to newer as they've invested more and more into automation).

The reliability of them probably has more to do with who has bought them. 944's were inexpensive Porsches, and got bought up by folks who couldn't afford them. For whatever reason, that didn't seem to happen to too many 968's. So between the two, if you can find an S2 that has been cared for, it'll be as good as a 968.

I find the 986 Boxster's interior fit and finish (and the 996 for that matter) to be downright poor. I can't help but chuckle when I hear their owners criticize Corvette interiors when they inevitably come up on the Racing forum. They are awful. I think that the Boxster S will be a better bet, but the plain Boxsters are starting to look lke the 944's as far as owner demographics. Add in the IMS issue, and they start loooking really sketchy. Having said that, if you can get one at the right price, and set aside a few thousand bucks for an IMS and clutch, it may be a good deal. Oh yeah, there is also a D-chunking issue with the cylinders, brought on by oil consumption when the air oil baffle isn't replaced. So there are a lot of big caveats with the 986 that aren't there with the 968 or S2.

odurandina

all leather interior option, 993 all leather seat option, CS fixed back seats, i assume the S2 headliner is the same as the gorgeous 968 headliner that lasts 200 years (and not the garbage 944 headliner that crumbles to dust after being exposed to weird toxic chemicals like oxygen)... the 968 teardrop, adjustable mirrors rock....



huh, what ??




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Nandle

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, for sure. An ugly old frog? Not in my eyes. The issue as I see it is under the hood.I found a great looking vehicle online- no service records at all though.I figured I would try to call around to the dealerships in Dallas by chance they had records of the VIN and could tell me what service had been done. Talking to the service manager of this well known dealer, who had no intent of looking up the VIN for me, basically told me that it was a collector car- and no way I would want to drive a 968 on a daily basis- even if I am only going to put on maybe 10k a year, his exact words:

"an 85k car for 12k,,,there is a reason, it too expensive to maintain- get a modern car like a Boxster, youll be happier"

J Berk

If you're looking at a 968 it's not an "85k car"....more like $50k new....20 years ago.

What you were told is BS.....if the car is properly maintained there is no reason it can't be a reliable DD.

The question is how long from the time you buy until the time it's up to par with maintenance. That is largely diriven by your wallet and your skills....in addition to the condition of your purchase.

That is why several folks here have said "buy the best one you can afford and get a PPI".

As for the differences in interiors....mehh. There was a leather option on 944's....the headliner on a 944 is definately not ideal...but in my car...with 207,000 miles....the only crumble or sag is on the removable part by the hatch hinges....because it ocassionally gets wet when you open the hatch in the rain....and is subject to a pounding from the sun coming in the hatch.

Seats are nice...they are also easily changed. I put Sport Seats in my S2. I also have 968 mirrors and door handles because as noted, they are better looking.

As I mentioned earlier....if you were to find a nice, well maintained S2 you should not turn it down....not for any reason I've heard so far anyway.

Now if you simply prefer a 968...then go for it !

odurandina

start a thread on the '68 forum....

https://rennlist.com/forums/968-forum-71/


call it something like, shopping for my 968....


start listing VIN numbers for cars you find for sale..

Jeff C. will chime in and be able to tell you a quite a lot about each car.


you can buy a 968 without good records if a few conditions are met. first, the seller is going to have to see that no records means a substantial loss on his end.... unless you're paying between 3 and 5 grand for a 968, the issue of either getting a last-time-done date/mileage, or a new set of timing and balance shaft belts must be cleared up before you drive the car away.


the other issue will be to get the car inspected. this doesn't need to be a federal investigation. it's not a $30 k Cayman. but, the ppi must include, the basics; including oil cooler, ps, and rear main seals, clutch, torque tube/pinion bearing, cooling system, cam, cam pad inspection, brake and anti-lock system.


if you end up being the highest, low-offer he ends up with, you'll become very important to the seller.

once this occurs, if the seller agrees to pay for a fair portion of a complete timing belt kit and H20 pump (cuz there's no records dumbass) you can drive the car away... or the seller will deduct part of this cost from the sale... during the negotiation period, i think it's a good idea to get medieval with the seller by providing a list of about 100~150 parts you're absolutely sure now need replacing.... which, might just as well put you in the poor house, followed by your offer with/without the timing belt kit being done.

if he still refuses to do the belts, or discount it, then, after having informed him of your impending doom (after purchase), then make your final offer and politely walk away from the sale. if you can get this far with the seller, i'd be fairly comfortable buying any 968 with poor records.



the crass content has been edited.


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Cole

I bought a brand new Jeep, fully loaded, leather, nav, the works, about 6 years ago. At the time my 951 still had race seats and a cage in it. a/c didn't work yet and it was still a major restoration project. I found myself driving the 951 all the time and the brand new Jeep sat and sat until I finally sold it.

I enjoyed driving my 951 so much on the street that I took the cage and race seats out and made it back into a proper street car. Which my wife loves to drive so much that she alternates between her Audi S6 Avant and the 951 as daily drivers. (Although I'm sure if I let her at the 928S4 or CTT she would drive those a lot too)

Sounds like the service manager's experience is limited to "pulling them around back" for service. At that level the newer cars are going to seem nicer.

Get out and really drive them, talk to other enthusiasts, and it all changes. I would bet more people come up to take about a 968 Cab than a Boxter of any vintage.

steve g

Trust but verify.

Hopefully some local Rennisters can give you the name of an experienced independent shop that works on 944/968 cars. The shop may even know of a car that has been well maintained. I would never bring my 968 or 993 to a dealer. Try to meet up with some local Rennlist folks who will let you drive their cars.

My $.02 is to go drive a few cars before you buy one. I've owned a 924S, a 944 Turbo, and now have a 968. The engine issues on early Boxsters would be a red flag for me. 944/968 cars have interference engines so maintenance is critical. If you can find a car with a documented history and records and a knowledgeable enthusiast owner who has taken care of the car, that would great but it doesn't always happen that way. Go into this purchase plan with your eyes open to the projected maintenance expenses.

odurandina

yeah, so that engine can blow sky high when you're stuck in traffic going 30 mph over the Ben Franklin Bridge.... this dealer is a tool (aren't they all ?)... at birth, the cars were in the mid 40s to low 50s depending on options.... adjusted for inflation, we're probably near the mid-60s now.



my 968 has been reasonable/middle of the road pricey to maintain (depending on my mood).... i'm a grouch, but what right do i have to complain ? i've taken the car on over 90 road trips between 400 and 1,500 miles for a total of about 85 k miles.... i put about 16,500 miles on the car just between Thanksgiving and Memorial Day, starting around 140,000 miles. but this didn't come without a price. i finally had some repair glitches come up.... the AC pump seized and the original clutch finally went at 160 k miles.....

we gave it a proper burial.


to be fair, the headgaskets will go on each and every one of these cars eventually. my headgasket is no exception; but we're standing pat with Bars Leaks headgasket sealer. car has tons of power and is holding the coolant with no issues after about 6 k miles (after adding the sealer to the coolant).... other than these glitches, it's been a very reasonably priced car.

Chunkerz

What? I'm just trying to give the man some advice to save him some trouble. After viewing threads about cracked heads, ruined camshafts, and bent valves from failed cam chain tensioner pads, I just thought I'd mention that it is an important maintenance item that should be addressed if the car has no records of it being done.


What other adjustments can you do with the 968 mirrors other than move the glass? I've never heard of anything special about them other than their looks.

Those aren't the factory 968 headlights. That's your car with the 997 headlight conversion. The 968 has headlights that lay almost flat and flip up and down, just like the 928, which IMO is the ugliest car Porsche ever produced (especially the early ones). They're big and round, just like a bug's eyes.