"Outlaw" 944s....where are they?
08-14-2013, 05:40 PM
#226
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The driving lights are too low and you could be pulled over, hassled, ticketed, even have your car impounded at any point if used at night. If you got in an accident not having headlights might come up as a possible factor also. I would not relish having that conversation. "So let me get this straight. You removed the headlights from your car to save weight and look cooler?"
08-14-2013, 06:01 PM
#227
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Uh, you mean me?
They are daytime driving lights for visibility by other cars, and fog lights not unlike the factory fog lights in height. I have fully functional factory popup headlights with Hella bulbs which are used at night.
So, no, I did not "remove the headlights on my car to look cooler". I added a set to see and be seen better.
Jeff
They are daytime driving lights for visibility by other cars, and fog lights not unlike the factory fog lights in height. I have fully functional factory popup headlights with Hella bulbs which are used at night.
So, no, I did not "remove the headlights on my car to look cooler". I added a set to see and be seen better.
Jeff
08-14-2013, 06:27 PM
#228
Drifting
Thread Starter
The driving lights are too low and you could be pulled over, hassled, ticketed, even have your car impounded at any point if used at night. If you got in an accident not having headlights might come up as a possible factor also. I would not relish having that conversation. "So let me get this straight. You removed the headlights from your car to save weight and look cooler?"
Let me help out a little bit. Here are all the laws on the Colorado books that reference lighting equipment that could apply to a 944/951. (note I left out the motorcycle/low power scooter/ pre 1936/ truck lighting laws)
The height requirement was deleted. Even when we had one it was only a traffic infraction. Meaning the MOST the officer USED to be able to do was write you a ticket. They couldn't even come close to impounding your car
C.R.S. 42-4-204 (Copy w/ Cite)
Pages: 2
C.R.S. 42-4-204
COLORADO REVISED STATUTES
*** This document reflects changes current through all laws passed
at the Second Regular and First Extraordinary Sessions
of the Sixty-Eighth General Assembly of the State of Colorado 2012
and Constitutional and Statutory amendments approved at the General Election on November 6, 2012 ***
TITLE 42. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
REGULATION OF VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
ARTICLE 4.REGULATION OF VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
PART 2. EQUIPMENT
C.R.S. 42-4-204 (2012)
42-4-204. When lighted lamps are required
(1) Every vehicle upon a highway within this state, between sunset and sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavorable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of one thousand feet ahead, shall display lighted lamps and illuminating devices as required by this article for different classes of vehicles, subject to exceptions with respect to parked vehicles.
(2) Whenever requirement is declared by this article as to distance from which certain lamps and devices shall render objects visible or within which such lamps or devices shall be visible, said provisions shall apply during the times stated in subsection (1) of this section in respect to a vehicle without load when upon a straight, level, unlighted highway under normal atmospheric conditions, unless a different time or condition is expressly stated.
(3) Whenever requirement is declared by this article as to the mounted height of lamps or devices, it shall mean from the center of such lamp or device to the level ground upon which the vehicle stands when such vehicle is without a load.(NOTE THAT AFTER THIS SECTION WAS EDITED IN 2012 THERE IS NO REFERENCE HEIGHT I CAN FIND ANYWHERE IN THE COLORADO REVISED STATUTES NOW FOR A PASSENGER CAR, ONLY FOR SCOOTERS AND PRE 1936 CARS and COMMERCIAL TRUCKS)
(4) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic infraction.
HISTORY: Source: L. 94: Entire title amended with relocations, p. 2242, § 1, effective January 1, 1995.
.
42-4-216. Multiple-beam road lights
(1) Except as provided in this article, the head lamps or the auxiliary driving lamp or the auxiliary passing lamp or combination thereof on motor vehicles, other than motorcycles or low-power scooters, shall be so arranged that the driver may select at will between distributions of light projected to different elevations, and such lamps may, in addition, be so arranged that such selection can be made automatically, subject to the following limitations:
(a) There shall be an uppermost distribution of light or composite beam so aimed and of such intensity as to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least three hundred fifty feet ahead for all conditions of loading.
(b) There shall be a lowermost distribution of light or composite beam so aimed and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least one hundred feet ahead; and on a straight level road under any condition of loading, none of the high-intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver.
(1.5) Head lamps arranged to provide a single distribution of light not supplemented by auxiliary driving lamps shall be permitted for low-speed electric vehicles in lieu of multiple-beam, road-lighting equipment specified in this section if the single distribution of light complies with paragraph (b) of subsection (1) of this section.
(2) A new motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle or low-power scooter, that has multiple-beam road-lighting equipment, shall be equipped with a beam indicator, which shall be lighted whenever the uppermost distribution of light from the head lamps is in use and shall not otherwise be lighted. Said indicator shall be so designed and located that when lighted it will be readily visible without glare to the driver of the vehicle so equipped.
(3) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class B traffic infraction.
HISTORY: Source:. L. 94: Entire title amended with relocations, p. 2252, § 1, effective January 1, 1995.L. 97: (1.5) added, p. 393, § 4, effective August 6.L. 2009: (1.5) amended, (SB 09-075), ch. 418, p. 2323, § 10, effective August 5; IP(1) and (2) amended, (HB 09-1026), ch. 281, p. 1274, § 43, effective October 1.
(1) Except as provided in this article, the head lamps or the auxiliary driving lamp or the auxiliary passing lamp or combination thereof on motor vehicles, other than motorcycles or low-power scooters, shall be so arranged that the driver may select at will between distributions of light projected to different elevations, and such lamps may, in addition, be so arranged that such selection can be made automatically, subject to the following limitations:
(a) There shall be an uppermost distribution of light or composite beam so aimed and of such intensity as to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least three hundred fifty feet ahead for all conditions of loading.
(b) There shall be a lowermost distribution of light or composite beam so aimed and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least one hundred feet ahead; and on a straight level road under any condition of loading, none of the high-intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver.
(1.5) Head lamps arranged to provide a single distribution of light not supplemented by auxiliary driving lamps shall be permitted for low-speed electric vehicles in lieu of multiple-beam, road-lighting equipment specified in this section if the single distribution of light complies with paragraph (b) of subsection (1) of this section.
(2) A new motor vehicle, other than a motorcycle or low-power scooter, that has multiple-beam road-lighting equipment, shall be equipped with a beam indicator, which shall be lighted whenever the uppermost distribution of light from the head lamps is in use and shall not otherwise be lighted. Said indicator shall be so designed and located that when lighted it will be readily visible without glare to the driver of the vehicle so equipped.
(3) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class B traffic infraction.
HISTORY: Source:. L. 94: Entire title amended with relocations, p. 2252, § 1, effective January 1, 1995.L. 97: (1.5) added, p. 393, § 4, effective August 6.L. 2009: (1.5) amended, (SB 09-075), ch. 418, p. 2323, § 10, effective August 5; IP(1) and (2) amended, (HB 09-1026), ch. 281, p. 1274, § 43, effective October 1.
08-16-2013, 12:52 PM
#230
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It is the Kokeln Racing front end, now sold by Lindsey Racing (I had a great experience with them on every purschase I have made for parts, by the way).
It is the front end Kokeln developed for their "Orca" and "Flipper" development platform race 951s back when they still did 944 stuff.
I love it.
It is the front end Kokeln developed for their "Orca" and "Flipper" development platform race 951s back when they still did 944 stuff.
I love it.
08-18-2013, 12:20 AM
#232
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Looks like there are federal regs for headlight height. Page 72 here:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...sec571-108.pdf
If there is no Colorado law that might mean you are less likely to be hassled but I think the car would sure get attention from the cops with lights that low and they can probably write you for something if they decide to pull you over. If you are running the Euro DL/fogs those are not going to be DOT.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...sec571-108.pdf
If there is no Colorado law that might mean you are less likely to be hassled but I think the car would sure get attention from the cops with lights that low and they can probably write you for something if they decide to pull you over. If you are running the Euro DL/fogs those are not going to be DOT.
08-18-2013, 12:27 AM
#233
Drifting
Thread Starter
Looks like there are federal regs for headlight height. Page 72 here:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...sec571-108.pdf
If there is no Colorado law that might mean you are less likely to be hassled but I think the car would sure get attention from the cops with lights that low and they can probably write you for something if they decide to pull you over. If you are running the Euro DL/fogs those are not going to be DOT.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...sec571-108.pdf
If there is no Colorado law that might mean you are less likely to be hassled but I think the car would sure get attention from the cops with lights that low and they can probably write you for something if they decide to pull you over. If you are running the Euro DL/fogs those are not going to be DOT.
Colorado cops can't enforce a federal regulation. When was the last time you saw a Federal Patrol officer? Not going to happen.
Last edited by Cole; 08-20-2013 at 08:41 PM.
08-18-2013, 01:05 PM
#234
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Well, I only run with the lower lights by themselves during the day, at night, I have the factory lights.
In Arizona the biggest worry I would have is the Arizona Department of Public Safety aka Highway Patrol. They most definitely enforce DOT standards to the letter of the law. The have a high presence in the Tucson corridor of I-10 and routinely pull over both commercial and private vehicles. But I have been driving that section 40 miles one way back and forth to work for 5 years now and have never been pulled over by a DPS officer. (knock on wood) but I am also very well behaved on the freeway and really do drive the speed limit. My car is pretty noticeable, too.
They have a reputation for being very professional, and likely have plenty of more challenging stops to make, I see roadside vehicle searches pretty regularly.
Like I said, for me it is more of a safety/visibility thing much like new cars automatically have headlights on during daylight.
Jeff
In Arizona the biggest worry I would have is the Arizona Department of Public Safety aka Highway Patrol. They most definitely enforce DOT standards to the letter of the law. The have a high presence in the Tucson corridor of I-10 and routinely pull over both commercial and private vehicles. But I have been driving that section 40 miles one way back and forth to work for 5 years now and have never been pulled over by a DPS officer. (knock on wood) but I am also very well behaved on the freeway and really do drive the speed limit. My car is pretty noticeable, too.
They have a reputation for being very professional, and likely have plenty of more challenging stops to make, I see roadside vehicle searches pretty regularly.
Like I said, for me it is more of a safety/visibility thing much like new cars automatically have headlights on during daylight.
Jeff
08-18-2013, 03:05 PM
#235
Drifting
Thread Starter
FWIW, no state police officer anywhere can enforce a "DOT Standard" unless there is a State Law on the books that says a vehicle must comply to those standards. Rarely does this happen because states prefer to make their own laws instead of defaulting to a federal "manufacturing standard"
Realize that "DOT standards" are a suggested manufacturing standard, not a law. The car manufacturers don't even "have" to follow the suggested standards but often do as a defense against law suits.
Federal regulations for things like emissions or required equipment a manufacturer has to follow. But an individual owner doesn't necessarily have to stick to based on local laws. Emissions equipment for example isn't required by every county in every state. No federal enforcement on local laws.
Realize that "DOT standards" are a suggested manufacturing standard, not a law. The car manufacturers don't even "have" to follow the suggested standards but often do as a defense against law suits.
Federal regulations for things like emissions or required equipment a manufacturer has to follow. But an individual owner doesn't necessarily have to stick to based on local laws. Emissions equipment for example isn't required by every county in every state. No federal enforcement on local laws.
Well, I only run with the lower lights by themselves during the day, at night, I have the factory lights.
In Arizona the biggest worry I would have is the Arizona Department of Public Safety aka Highway Patrol. They most definitely enforce DOT standards to the letter of the law. The have a high presence in the Tucson corridor of I-10 and routinely pull over both commercial and private vehicles. But I have been driving that section 40 miles one way back and forth to work for 5 years now and have never been pulled over by a DPS officer. (knock on wood) but I am also very well behaved on the freeway and really do drive the speed limit. My car is pretty noticeable, too.
They have a reputation for being very professional, and likely have plenty of more challenging stops to make, I see roadside vehicle searches pretty regularly.
Like I said, for me it is more of a safety/visibility thing much like new cars automatically have headlights on during daylight.
Jeff
In Arizona the biggest worry I would have is the Arizona Department of Public Safety aka Highway Patrol. They most definitely enforce DOT standards to the letter of the law. The have a high presence in the Tucson corridor of I-10 and routinely pull over both commercial and private vehicles. But I have been driving that section 40 miles one way back and forth to work for 5 years now and have never been pulled over by a DPS officer. (knock on wood) but I am also very well behaved on the freeway and really do drive the speed limit. My car is pretty noticeable, too.
They have a reputation for being very professional, and likely have plenty of more challenging stops to make, I see roadside vehicle searches pretty regularly.
Like I said, for me it is more of a safety/visibility thing much like new cars automatically have headlights on during daylight.
Jeff
08-18-2013, 05:37 PM
#238
Three Wheelin'
i have seen some crazy mods come out of the US. compared to Aussie/NZ you guys can get away with quite a lot, which is odd considering what the 5mph low impact law did to car design. in NZ a lot of mods need to be certified by a low volume engineering authority. converting fogs to be the only front source of light, I wouldnt know for sure without checking it out but I doubt it would fly. considering our tarmac rally and group A/N rally cars all have to be road legal and all still use factory lighting... I do like that delete panel you can get, it looks very clean (i think someone here had a gif in their sig of one getting ripped off by the slipstream while on the track). it makes me wonder what a longer hood that deletes the badge panel and headlights would look like. Kind of like what the 968 hood did.
08-19-2013, 01:45 AM
#239
Three Wheelin'
I live in colorado and have been running with just fog lights as my normal headlights for 3 years. The city cops didnt care to much but the highway patrol cared. Most of the time when i got stopped for my lights it was because they thought i was a drunk driver driving with fog lights only. One officer told me that other cars cant see me coming up behind them with lights that low. Told me if they catch me one more time without lights that were atleast 17" off the ground they were going to impound. So now I'm doing a little mod.
Last edited by MooreBoost; 08-19-2013 at 01:38 PM.
08-19-2013, 02:13 AM
#240
Three Wheelin'
here you go
