MooreBoost

this car is cool. no brake pedal, holes in the shift tunnel and the weather stripping is coming off the door. lol. wish i could cut holes in the 944 tunnel but the elements would suck

bad_monkey

Steering wheel is also totally on the wrong side!

I had looked at doing a body-colour dash.. I have a plug of an early dash under the house with the centre speaker deleted and the side vents sealed up. I abandoned trying to cast the mold due to cold weather - fibreglassing is not my favourite activity in winter when resin takes a long time to cure.

Since then I've thought about adding a centre console panel to the dash plug, and trying to do the whole thing in carbon. The area around the gauges is quite deep, so getting a good part would be tricky for me.

That's more on the line you're thinking?

Outside, we need to be slammed down like drifta944's car to qualify.

Cole

Not sure what you are looking at. I can see both the brake and clutch pedal on that car. They are all black and old school small so they don't stand out like the gas pedal does.

Red1

There's nothing aftermarket in that interior that would be welcome in either of my 951s. That style of door panel has already been posted in a previous, and better, example. Otherwise - No.

Cole

I didn't say I liked the aftermarket stuff. I said there were "elements" of the style.

Like making a short console so you can attach a shift lever straight to the floor in a more sporty look.

Red1

The idea, maybe. Execution, not so much. And oh BTW Greg Brady called - he wants that carpet back. Yeesh.

Trying to follow a "Gruppe" clique isn't necessarily my ideal path. They swiss-cheese everything to gain that little "extra". I pop on a turbo large enough to swallow a grapefruit and gain a whole lot of real-time extra, and that's more relevant to my tastes than eye candy.

The old-schoolers are trying to recapture a simpler time of motoring. The 944 series is a different era. Applying practices to it no longer in vogue during it's prime don't look anymore right than if you tried updating it to an all-digital alcantara and carbon-fiber dash.

Suspension upgrades, better turbo, upgraded brakes, and a high degree of maintenance makes a 951 stand out. Turn on the lights at night and find proper E-code headlights, dash lights that work properly, a shifter that doesn't resemble a broom handle in a mop bucket, non-ripped sport seats - these are the little things that aren't readily obvious to an impartial observer, but display a good one to those in the know.

Yeah, most of that is simple "bolt on" stuff. The beauty of it is, the 951 doesn't need serious fabrication to still be a relevant sports car. Just a little massaging in the right spots. Otherwise, it's just fabrication for the sake of fabrication, and who has time for that?

Cole

Nobody is trying to follow a clique here, and if you don't like the topic, stay out of it

Haha....a big turbo the size to swallow a grapefruit goes against the beauty of this car. Huge lag, hard to predict and balance power delivery on a road course. Sounds like all you want is a muscle car that goes fast in a straight line. Which is fine, just not what this thread is about.

All that swiss cheese weight savings effort does so much more than just help a car go fast. All those upgrades like suspension and brakes are about controlling mass! If you reduce the mass then those upgraded parts do a much better job at controlling it. Also, if you reduce the total center of gravity by reducing mass on higher surfaces you do what no suspension or brake upgrade can.

Nobody has ever said that you ONLY reduce the weight! This is a whole package deal to be combined with other performance parts.

There is a reason that a super light car with very little power can run faster lap times than even the biggest hp heavier cars.

BTW, reducing weight improves HP/TQ delivery to the ENTIRE rev range, not just the upper end like a bigger turbo does.


You are right the 944 was a different era. It was the beginning of a time when we started to add bloat to cars, we filled even the simplest of sports cars with heavy materials and safety items in the name of comfort and govt safety regulations. It was a time when we did not have the technology to make those things very light. So even things like a hood hinge is filled with too much extra steel. Seat and floor panels were still made of heavy wooden sheets. 4 cyl engines weighed as much as today's V8s.



It was an era in between today's technological wonders and old school simplicity. Blend in the right combination of modern materials and technology and old school clean lines and simplicity and the 944 would be an awesome car!


You do realize this is a hobby right? More than half the fun for many is the building of the car! Building something different! If I wanted to be like the masses I'd buy a Camary!

User 52121

Neat idea. At some point in my life I *will* build both a 911 and 356 "outlaw" style... though for me, I always envisioned the outlaw style as almost requiring an older car and then blending old style with new performance/technology.

IMO it should be stiff, noisy, stinky, but perform well and not be quite as spartan as a full race car. It should also be a throwback to the original cars but with modern updates. My vision for a 356 would be a stripped interior (sound deadening, etc) and then throw in some thin carpet. A healthy 4-cyl (or perhaps a small 2.2/2.4L 6) with small (loud) mufflers, weber carbs, kinda pop and fart and stink a little and maybe even run a little ornery when cold. Deep bucket seats, etc. Big modern disc brakes, nice set of modern coilovers.

So I suppose, to apply that to a 944...

• It would have to be an N/A. Maybe a 3.0L 16v motor, some aggressive cams (so the idle kinda lopes) and needs some revs to hit the sweet spot (but really sing once you're there)
• Straight pipe exhaust (or close to it)
• Set up the interior similar to the Carrera GT/924 GTS style, with the removed center console (just carpet)
• Roll cage, but painted nicely to match and integrate with the interior
• No radio (or hidden radio, or even better, I like the idea someone here said about an iPod and hidden small amp).
• Manual mirrors, manual crank windows (did those even exist on the 944?), manual door locks
• IMO every outlaw needs to roll on Minilites

Cole

I like it!


I figure these cars are getting old enough to start that blend of old and new...

Red1

Excuse the hell out of me. Dissenting opinions not welcomed. Gotcha. Nothing cliquesh about that. No, not at all...

I understand mass. My '86 is so light we have to add balast to meet class specs for GTS-3. Kind of taken to an extreme at that point. Drilling any additional holes or fabricating custom bits out of unobtanium is an excuse to spend time and money when you're already having to put weight back into the car. Point is, the car can be made very light without resorting to extreme measures.

In a street car, it's just a matter of what level of comfort you require. You're not trying to make a modern car out of an anemic 70hp 1500cc dinosaur. I like having p/s and A/C in a street car that can take the fast lane anytime I wish.

I thought you disdained off-the-shelf bolt-on performance parts.

I've seen the reduced-weight genie chased down to the point of custom-machined titanium pistons for the brake calipers on a (cough) "spec"-944. Most drivers would be better served to skip the trackside cheeseburger and reduce that talking balast. Not many of us are built like Tony Kanaan.

In this case the dollars spent for grams saved was ridiculous, and resulted in negligible performance gain. Money would have been better spent, in terms of outright performance, in a host of directions. Hell, he couldn't even brag about what he'd done to get poseur points. Only reason I knew about them was I saw them being made.

That explains why the 914 and spec 944 guys always lap the cup cars. Wait, that's not how I remember it...

A few grams here and there vs 100+ horsepower over stock. I'll go with the power adder until I can't hook up on 3rd gear turns.

It still is an awesome car, if maintained, and if taken in context. It's not a 356, and it's not a 997. It doesn't need "Gruppe" efforts to stay relevant. Sadly, most are in some state of disrepair. Hard to appreciate a 25 y/o car for it's handling when it's riding on its original bushings.

You are too kind.

Cole

Haha.....

My point was simply that if you don't like it then why troll? Why the hate?

We are not talking about race cars here. We are talking about putting some love and attention into our hobby cars.

A extra 100hp will not make your car turn better, or get out of a. First gear corner better with that big turbo;-)

You are reading into this what you want. I never said bolt on parts were bad. I said there is "more to it than simply bolting on parts".

I've also never said I dislike track cars or nice examples of these cars. I would just love to see some more of that high quality super **** in between stuff. Maybe you don't have the attention span or interest in that, which is totally fine. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's just not the topic of this thread. Keep in mind I am typing this all with a very light hearted attitude, nothing in this is meant as argumentative or insulting.


I love anything mechanical. Things like old watches are really cool! Do they tell the best time?
No! Are they the most functional for the task? No! Are they fun to have, hold, look at and enjoy? YES, to those that enjoy them. Wanting to build a 944 is no different.

Red1

Sorry. Too much time in P&C. Obstination is second nature.

Back on topic, I think one reason "Outlaws" don't really exist in 944s is that we don't have preservation/restoration purists that give a **** what you do to a 944. Whereas with Ferry's fossils there is certainly a contingent that gets their panties all wadded up if effort is put into a car that makes it anything other than exactly as it left Stuttgart.

pontifex4

Great term. I think you just made this thread for me.

V2Rocket

This actually wouldn't be too difficult, just need time to accomplish. 924 manual window winders will bolt on to an early 944 door (or just swap the doors!)

You'd want to start with an early car because they are noticeably lighter than a late car. Probably throw a 2.7L 8v in there for simplicity but good torque. Might even find a sunroof delete car.

Interior is easy, I like the idea of the stripped dash and just carpet everywhere. 924 came with a wheel that looks sort of like minilites.

kab996

This looks pretty good to me...