TexasRider

Good point and darn true too.

BoostBuggy

Not sure that's an accurate statement as there has always been an audience for 356's. The 356's were never considered not to be "True" Porsches. There was even a 356 in Top Gun (movie) and that was almost 30 years ago. Yes, if you look at prices one could suggest there was a wanning for a period but that's true of every old car whether it's now worth a lot or not i.e. there was a time when you could purchase a 935 or a 962 for a (relatively) modest or at least what wone could say was a (again relatively) reasonable amount.

I would suggest a significant if not the key difference here is the 356 was the beginning of what now is considered to be the "essence" of the Porsche sportscar; i.e. rear engine, opposed cylinders. This is a big part of the increased market value and increased interest in the 356.

None of this is true for the 924/944/968/928 cars. Hell the 924 was originally intended to be a VW model and the first engine was Audi derived. Another 25 years from now the 924/944/968/928 cars will still be the bastard Porsches of days gone by.

I'll bet that had the collection opted to sell the 924/944/968 cars without Gooding & Co (knon for only doing "High End & Valuable" automobiles, none of them would have pulled anywhere close to those prices. OK, with one exception: the 968 Turbo S clone at $66k. That probably wasn't too bad a price as it would have cost at least that much to duplicate that car. Certainly an 88 951S would not have sold for $82.5k even if sold through the ads in Pano or even on the lot of Symbolic Motorcars.

I would speculate the auction itself did much to inflate the prices of these cars. It was widely reported some years ago that Jason of Paragon Products purchased his 968 Turbo RS for around $60k from a private party, not an auction. For the most part you don't get any good deals at auctions.

Just my $.02

thirdgenbird

914s followed the same fate. they were sold as vws, they had a vw engine, they were overlooked as not "real" and now they are starting to bring decent money.

i dont see the basic 924/44/68 line ever becoming valuable, but i do expect there to be a day in the not too distant future where clean ones increase in value because the worn ones have faded away. regardless of there authenticity, the entire lineage is very well regarded. they probably would have done better with about any other badge.

i think 944 owners mainly have themselves to blame for low resale prices. prices for these cars in the open market are nearly double what people expect to pay here. NADA lists the high retail value of a 924s over $7,000. you would all flame me if i listed my car for 5k

Cole

[quote=autokurl;9356826]Not sure that's an accurate statement as there has always been an audience for 356's. [/qoute]


An audience? Sure. But not the crazy values of today. I shopped for years for a 356 while in high school and college (80s-90s) and they could be found easily in restorable condition for around the $5k mark. Hell, I can show you examples of 550 Spyders that sold for $5k in the 70s and are million dollar cars today.(see below)

I was talking to a guy last week that used to work on them. He was laughing because only 10 or so years ago they were still parting them out and cutting them up to repair other cars. Now they are trying to piece together the chassis they once cut up.

So what? The 944 and 928 have been in seveal movies too

I think the big issue is simply that these cars are not old enough yet. Nothing from the 80s has really reached its stride yet.

There was a time when a late 60s muscle car was just an old Chevy, Ford or Dodge. You could buy them all day long for $500. For example I bought my 1967 RS/SS Camaro in 1987 for $1,000. It was just a 20 year old Chevy at that point. Now cleaned up it would bring $50-150k to the right buyer. Fwiw, the sticker on that car was $2,500 new. So at the 20 year mark it was still selling for way less than half of new.

Ford sold over 500,000 1965 Mustangs!! How many of those do you see today and what are they worth? There were only 144k 944s total and only 25k 951 and only about 12k 968. So in relative terms they are very low numbers. especially when you include the number wrecked and parted out.

It's an attitude and timing issue right now. They are not old enough, but just about to the tipping point. The bad attitude and treatment by owners is also the next problem.

Good examples are getting harder to find. While I'm sure there are some people that are complete idiots that inherited money. There are also those way smarter than us, that is why they have the money!!! They see things that some of us are not seeing. Maybe they see that good examples of a soon to be very desirable car are going to get expensive! They will laugh all the way to the bank one day because what you think is an outrageous price for the car today is really a bargain for a clean rare example looking forward.

Cole

Just an interesting quote from another forum for a time when even a 550 was not considered valuable.

Cyberpunky

Sorry Michael but you can say all you want how uneducated the buyers are but the fact is these cars are worth exactly what they went for, by definition. Australian delivered 952's go for $25-30K and some like this low mileage 90 model go for considerably more.

Any car is only worth what someone will pay for it and these fine examples may have been bought by ppl without knowledge but they are ppl without knowledge with enough means to pay those prices. I'm just jealous as a lot of these cars are something special and I doubt I will ever own anything that special but hey, I never thought I would ever own a Porsche, so who knows
peace
Cyberpunky

M758

You are correct. In today's money these 944 are pretty much worthless still. We buy them for peanuts and are happy. That said we are at the bottom of value. I bought my Turbo S in 1997 for 12.5k. It was a nice car, but far from perfect. 90k on it. Now it has 146k on it and is still a nice car, but not perfect. Value? Probably still around 10k. Point is valueas are at the bottom right now and have been that way for years. Well worn cars are still dropping, but those in solid shape are maintaining. Really nice ones will apperciate. Still 82k for Silver rose turbo S? That is crazy money. I plan to keep my Turbo S for years to come. Maybe one day I can look at it and be that lucky guy who saw the value of his car shoot up... If not I will just enjoy owning and driving my 88 Turbo S.

BoostBuggy

I am alos taken by the NADA and Kelly Blue Book retail prices. IMO copletely unrealistic. The problem with NADA specifically (and I suspect it applies to the other consumer price soources as well) is they derive the "retail" price based on reports of sold cars coming back from thier member dealers. I would suggest the issue here is with the 924/944/968 cars not really selling much through NADA member dealers is that if only one dealer in a given region sells a 924 for $7k then that becomes the avg retail price. If this case not very accurate representative of what is really going on in the marketplace.

Turb-OH Brad

Amelia Island Recap: The Surprise of the Show

black944 turbo

I think the craziest part is the Turbo cup car went for less than a Silver Rose Turbo S. I don't know about your guys, but I would much rather have a true cup car than a Turbo S (not to say that I wouldn't love a great Silver Rose S).

I have been saying that one day these cars will be worth something and maybe this will be the start of that.

thirdgenbird

You can't say they are completely unrealistic. That data came frome somewhere. Even if it was only one 924 it proves there is a market (no manner how small) for a $7k 924. I know in my area, I see worn 944s sell for more than nicely modified ones on rennlist.

seafeye

Here is a nice one.....not sure if it's worth the $10k or not....

http://www.belmonteautoimports.com/n...rsche-944.aspx

odurandina

my engine is still in the early stages of life at 157 k miles.

i'll take you for a ride... and you'll say. "yep... that thing is a beast."


best 4-cylinder engine ever imo. mine has some worn parts.... it could benefit from new belts, rod bearings, an oil pan/pickup tube/gasket refresh and if you're really a purist, you might elect to do (a valve job).... if you did those things, you could run this engine another 200 k miles or more.... easily.


how much $$$ have replacement 968 motors cost from Porsche over the past 20 years ?

oh, and how much money will this engine fetch on Rennlist ?


i could put 50, 60 k miles on these belts... then change them one last time.... then just keep driving the car..... then someday, when something finally breaks, simply have the engine hauled off for scrap....

BoostBuggy

I think you missed the point here. For every 1 924/944/968 sold via a dealer there are (I think it's reasonalable to assume) many more sold by private parties. Therefore the 1 sold and then represented by NADA, KBB, etc. does not represent the true market in an accurate manner. The only way for that 1 car sold via a dealer to be representative of the market would be if that one was more than the number selling outside of the dealer network.

If you look up a Ford F-150 in the NADA et al the price you find will be representative of the market as they are many of these sold by dealers every day. Therefore when those selling prices are communicated with NADA it makes for a sample size that is statistically significant relative to the market outside of dealers. Therefore you have a average selling price that is relevant to the entire market.

thirdgenbird

I understand sample sizes and averages. I don't think you understood my point. I didn't say it was an average or a represenative of the whole market, I just said it was proof there are people willing to pay 7k for a 924. It may be small, but there is still a market for these cars in that price range. The "one" car that set the NADA value may have consumed the 7k market or it may not have.

I still think we have ourselves to blame. the 924/944 cars sold on ebay or craigslist go for considerably more than well sorted ones sold on the boards. Around here (midwest) a nonrunning 944 gets listed at $1500+ and good ones are 4-5k. For about $2000 on pelican I could have bought a clean 924s and a plane ticket to get it.

On the 924 forums there is an "overpriced" thread that sometimes has more listings than theavalible cars that are "priced right". If I were going to list my car I would test the high end. There is proof that these cars can sell for "too much", why sell myself short?

(No, I am not selling my car)