AppleFanatic

Hi,

I'm sure you guys are sick and tired of answering questions from all the porsche noobs out there- but if you're willing to make an exception for me, it would be MUCH appreciated.

I'm a high school senior looking to buy my first car, and have finally saved up a few grand to do so. We own a 2002 Jetta TDI, and since driving it I've been hooked german autos I found a 1987 Porsche 924s in my price range, and am seriously considering going for it (The gray one):

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...798482395.html

He's asking $3000, but needs it sold in the next week so I could probably get him down by a large margin. From the pictures he sent me it looks to be in okay shape physically (although the interior needs a shampoo ), but I have some mechanical concerns:

-The front seal has an oil leak: My biggest fear. From what I understand, you have to take off the belts and water pump to replace it. It doesn't look like a simple job, and I doubt I can afford shop labor for it. I'm willing to put in the time and effort do it myself- do you think it would be possible for a relative amateur to do this? (With the help of the internet, of course) I have a Dad with a fair bit of automotive knowledge, and we have a good collection of tools.

-The clutch: From what I've read the clutch, timing belt and water pump are all weak points on these cars. If I did the front seal I'd do the belts and water pump too, but the clutch is something I don't think I could accomplish on my own. The owner said the clutch was fine, but I can't see how he could confirm that unless he has service receipts, which I doubt. How likely is it that the clutch will fail in the next, say, 2 Years/30,000 k's on this car?

-The mileage: The guy hasn't said how many miles are on it, and I haven't gotten around to asking him. The speedo reads 60,000 km's, and I'm guessing it's at least 160k, possibly 260.

-The car looks like it has been sitting: Anything I should be aware of if it's been in storage for a while?

If everything checks out, this would make an awesome first car I just don't want something that's going to cost me thousands a year to maintain.

What do you think? Any buying advice would be greatly appreciated Thanks!

MAGK944

Don't wish to put you off but if you spend $3k buying this you will spend another $3k in parts alone almost immediately.

The car has been sitting, for how long? If it's been a while I would check all the suspension rubber, motor mounts, coolant hoses and anything else made of rubber.

No service history means belts, rollers, front reseal and water pump.

Clutch wear can be measured, but if there is any noise you could be looking at crank pilot, clutch release and fork bearings at a minimum.

That's not even looking at brakes (rotors are probably toast if it's been sitting), pads, dampers, electrics.

These cars don't like to sit, better to buy a well maintained used one with history.

Saying all that it's a great learning car and if your dad has car experience you will pick up a lot. But don't expect it to be your daily driver for a while.

If you do buy a 944 become a paid member here, lots of good advise and very knowledgeable people who can help you out. GL

ilikemy944

Keep looking.
You can find a decent 944 for 3k.

AppleFanatic

Thanks for the quick responses

I'll have to ask him how long it's been sitting- it had a tarp over it, so it could've been a while, but he said it runs fine so it can't have been too long. I'll be sure to check all the rubber, thanks for the tip.

I wouldn't buy it unless I could get him down to at least $2 grand- ideally 1500. I'd use these concerns for some bartering leverage. He needs it sold, so I could end up with a good deal.

These cars are hard to come by in my area, which is why I'm considering this example. If it's crap in person and has no potential, then unfortunately I will just have to move on :/ And if it really will take $3 grand to make this a DD, even if everything checks out, then I'm going to have to look at something a tad more economical.

Arominus

A: you don't really need to pull the water pump to do the front seal but if you don't know how old it is then its probably a good idea to replace it while your there. Buy the balance shaft tool (which also retracts the spring tensioner), and a flywheel lock and you'll be fine. The belts/WP are really not that bad on these cars. Take your time, you'll be fine.

B: Hard to say how the clutch will hold up, that said if you can drive it and it feels good you should be ok for now. Can't say it will last forever but i made it 3 years on my "unknown condition" clutch in my 924s. Bleed the system along with the brakes and check for any leaks in the slave cyl. Another thing that will toast the clutch is a leaking heater valve, its located right over the bellhousing and when it leaks it can screw the clutch up. So plan on replacing that along with all of the other coolant hoses when you get the car. Its only $20.

C: When i got my 924s the odo was broken, only god knows how many miles it had,,, I drove it for 2 more years before i bothered to fix it (Just had to slide the gear down on the shaft in the speedo). That said, it allowed me not to focus so much on the milage and just get on with fixing the cars issues. After a while i had a decent car that i knew had all of the little things fixed and i enjoyed it for all it was worth until it was rear ended. Im thinking it ended up with over 200k and it was still going strong till the end....

If your willing to throw some more money at the car after you get it you'll be in good shape. My car had some records but not really all that much, and had been sitting for almost a year. I got it for $1200 and quickly spent another $1500 on it (on my way to 3kish total), and it turned out well. Once you get thing caught up you'll be able to spend less on it but it will occasionally cost you dearly so be ready. Do your own work (as it seems you plan to do) and enjoy the car, its rewarding, I loved my 924s, my 944s has grown on me but the affair isn't as torrid yet as it was with my 24... It was my first porsche after all

AppleFanatic

Awesome, thanks for the valuable advice

I'll definitely buy those tools if I go for the car, and put them to good use. I'll keep your recommendations in mind- I'm absolutely going to do any easy preventative maintenance I can.

3 years is all I need the clutch to last- I'll see if I can get a feel for the condition when I drive it, and I'd definitely do the heater valve to preserve it.

Good to know miles aren't too much of an issue. I don't mind a throwing a little money at the car, as long as it's affordable, and lasts me a few years. I've gotten very good at troubleshooting over the years, (family tech support ) and I'm actually looking forward to doing my own work.

Pity about your car I'm going to be extremely paranoid about mine, whatever I end up buying

odurandina

keep in mind, despite that these are 4 cylinder cars, they require very special care (that more closely reflects their original sticker price rather than their current value).... with that in mind, i think you will seldom see a 924S, 944, 944T, S2 or 968, that couldn't use at least a total of $8~12k to cover the costs of purchase and work that probably should be done soon after...

i posted a couple of threads that are great reads for new guys contemplating purchase;


choosing the right Porsche 944 for fun, daily-driving, or hard-core "restore..."

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...e-restore.html


how much money do you have in your car ??

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...-your-car.html


good luck,

od.

AppleFanatic

Wow, that second thread freaks me out.

Well, I think I'll go look at the car, drive it, and if it feels good, see as low as he's willing to go. If the price is right, I'll get a THOROUGH inspection done before buying.

Thanks for making me second-guess myself Not to worry, my father is doing plenty of that already

Butters944

DON'T LET THEM SCARE YOU AWAY!!! Here's some info from a high school junior.

Got my 83 summer after freshman year. Seized water pump. Sitting for 2 years. $1500.

I too have a dad with automotive knowledge, and a decent collection of tools. None of that fancy crap like a lift. We had never owned a porsche and knew nothing about them at the time.

With the help of the internet (especially www.clarks-garage.com and my dad, we changed the water pump/timing belt, got her running.

Ripped out a nasty mess of wires for a alarm system and a hood lock system, tore out the entire interior, carpet kit, tons and tons more stuff. Had her over 1.5 years now and I'm so glad I got her. Total $ I have in her is around $3.5k. So if it's a decent car and you can get it for 1.5-2k I say go for it. Chances are you won't have to dump another 5k into it.

Here's my project thread, though doesn't include the whole start. Haha.

Butters944

And btw, my dad wants to buy a 944 turbo sometime in the future, after I've introduced him to the porsche brand

Butters944

And also, here's proof that if you are willing to spend $5k you can get a really nice one.

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...ml#post9206566

odurandina

as far as having a mid-'80s car that runs well, you're obviously very close. and you make an even stronger case by mentioning having replaced the wires.... but i think list of the basics with a 944 is a long list !! — especially if a car has been sitting a while. so, i'm thinking of a longer parts list that even includes fuel lines, and injectors, after belts, rollers, front seals and H20 pump.... and in the case of many of the cars, there is going to be even more stuff to do... with a 968 for example, you're talking way over a grand just for the parts to refresh the timing system (including the cam chain, hall sender and padsH20 pump, belts, hoses and seals)... then, the power steering systems often need looking after, there are often trim pieces (cracked light fixtures, etc) and weather stripping that need replacing... and tires....

ok. stop there,


but, once you get up and driving, you'll soon be talking to yourself.... that not only is this an older car, but it's also a Porsche, and the crusty stereo pieces, carpets and interior trim won't do... and then you start thinking about a basic respray... but as you can see, before you got there, the dollar numbers had already gone up.


that being said, the 924S is a nifty car. but when you can pick up a 944 for just a few hundred dollars more, no question — imo, that's the better car for getting ready to drop a pile of money into.

odurandina

done correctly ? of course you will.

J Berk

Not sure it was mentioned but get a ppi (pre-purchase inspection).

It might cost $500 but if you are really interested in that car it will let you make an informed choice.

Also, as someone said before you can find very good 944's in that price range

scph

If you are looking for a car to drive you really just need to check it out in person. Start it if possible and make sure the oil pressure is ok and no noises in the motor. Drive it and make sure the trans shifts and is quiet. From there it just depends on your personal taste. If you like it buy it. I have a 944S that I spend more time and money on service to keep up with the "recommended service" stuff. I agree with changing the timing belt. That can cause real engine damage if it fails. A $15 belt, Saturday and Clarks garage will have it done. Far as the clutch... fix it when it goes. It could go for the next 6 years if you work it properly when driving. You could change it and have the new one come apart almost immediately. I bought a 944 once for parts and drove it for years before finally selling it with not one problem. I even picked my cousin up from the dealership a few times while his new Vette had crap fixed on it. That was worth the money right there. Still dont let him live that down. All from a $900 parts car. Look how many guys race NASA with junkyard motors with belts thrown on them. I personally helped change the 2 time and current GTS1 champion's motor to a 140,000 mile 2.7 with NO WORK done. Didnt even clean it. Then went out and won the last race of the year with it. If you want to keep up with the service book get your wallet out. Use your brain and choose wisely and they are affordable cars that are fun to drive. Throw on a new belt and change the fluids and fix the rest as needed. These cars are famous for leaking oil. Thats just something you have to chase with all of them. Never heard the term reseal until I bought my first Porsche. lol