It all started with a spun bearing....
09-08-2011, 02:59 PM
#1
Got Nothin'
Rennlist Member
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Thread Starter
It all started with a spun bearing....
A few weeks ago, just as I was arriving at work, my engine died and would not restart. Not only would it not re-start, but it would not turn over. The starter tried, but the engine would not turn....it was seized. Done. Had it flat-bedded over to a shop not far from work, and decided I would buy a rebuilt short block and have them swap everything from my old motor to the new one. This way, I would have a practically new engine in the car I have had for the last 13 years.
Anywhoo....the engine was pulled, the block was delivered, the head was reworked including new exhaust valves...new parts everywhere.....this job was going to be done right.
Eventually the new motor was back in the car, and it fired right up. And immediately lost oil pressure. Let the finger pointing begin.
So the shop that swapped in the motor comes to the conclusion that the short block was bad. They contact the shop that sent up the motor. The local shop wants to tear the motor down again and that the other shop that rebuilt the block should pay the labor. The other shop, says no, we will do you one better and have the car shipped to them and they will fix the block as warranty work.
I opt for that. Noting that the first shop is concerned that the rebuild place will somehow blame them for the lack of oil pressure.
So the car goes south. They change the oil pump. No pressure. Look a little further and discover the OPRV is not working, and is dumping oil into the pan. Hence no oil pressure. The oil cooler housing is not properly aligned. The OPRV is binding. It is not the rebuilt block.
(If you do a search for loss of oil pressure after rebuilds, the most common failure is the OPRV binding due to oil cooler housing misalignment)
So the shop down south calls the first shop. Informs them it is the OPRV.
They are willing to do the labor, but want the first shop to pay for new bearings, as they are probably wiped due to all the troubleshooting with no oil pressure. They would also like to be paid for the tow.
I feel like I am stuck in the middle as the first shop is stiff arming the shop down south and has not agreed to the parts yet (OPRV, rod bearings, possibly mains).....
If they had just done more troubleshooting they may have found the OPRV and none of this would have happened.
I am into this for more than I wanted. Right now I just want my car back in working order. I don't think I should have to pay for the parts to get the car right since it was an installation error that caused the problem.
Kicking myself right now for not doing the work myself, but I did not want my garage tied up for several weeks. The shop is a noted local shop that works on european sports cars. Will leave it at that.
So now I wait. Thanks for reading.
Anywhoo....the engine was pulled, the block was delivered, the head was reworked including new exhaust valves...new parts everywhere.....this job was going to be done right.
Eventually the new motor was back in the car, and it fired right up. And immediately lost oil pressure. Let the finger pointing begin.
So the shop that swapped in the motor comes to the conclusion that the short block was bad. They contact the shop that sent up the motor. The local shop wants to tear the motor down again and that the other shop that rebuilt the block should pay the labor. The other shop, says no, we will do you one better and have the car shipped to them and they will fix the block as warranty work.
I opt for that. Noting that the first shop is concerned that the rebuild place will somehow blame them for the lack of oil pressure.
So the car goes south. They change the oil pump. No pressure. Look a little further and discover the OPRV is not working, and is dumping oil into the pan. Hence no oil pressure. The oil cooler housing is not properly aligned. The OPRV is binding. It is not the rebuilt block.
(If you do a search for loss of oil pressure after rebuilds, the most common failure is the OPRV binding due to oil cooler housing misalignment)
So the shop down south calls the first shop. Informs them it is the OPRV.
They are willing to do the labor, but want the first shop to pay for new bearings, as they are probably wiped due to all the troubleshooting with no oil pressure. They would also like to be paid for the tow.
I feel like I am stuck in the middle as the first shop is stiff arming the shop down south and has not agreed to the parts yet (OPRV, rod bearings, possibly mains).....
If they had just done more troubleshooting they may have found the OPRV and none of this would have happened.
I am into this for more than I wanted. Right now I just want my car back in working order. I don't think I should have to pay for the parts to get the car right since it was an installation error that caused the problem.
Kicking myself right now for not doing the work myself, but I did not want my garage tied up for several weeks. The shop is a noted local shop that works on european sports cars. Will leave it at that.
So now I wait. Thanks for reading.
09-08-2011, 04:52 PM
#3
OPRV.....chalk it up to another $hitty Porsche design. Holler at me if you decide to stab a reliable GM V8.... No ill-designed timing belt, water pump, no dry double chamber lifters, dead DME relay, alarm tied to the relay LOL, Pick-up tube so thin it cracks from the out-of-balance 4 banger, cracked rear reference sensors, cast steel clutch fork, easily spun bearings....milkshake from oil cooler seals and OPRV shadiness.... That's just off the top of my head...
09-08-2011, 05:20 PM
#4
Oh dear, for those of us who've dealt with the spun rod bearing saga (myself included), my heart goes out to ya. The only way I could justify rebuilding it is by putting in a much more powerful engine.
09-08-2011, 05:31 PM
#5
OPRV.....chalk it up to another $hitty Porsche design. Holler at me if you decide to stab a reliable GM V8.... No ill-designed timing belt, water pump, no dry double chamber lifters, dead DME relay, alarm tied to the relay LOL, Pick-up tube so thin it cracks from the out-of-balance 4 banger, cracked rear reference sensors, cast steel clutch fork, easily spun bearings....milkshake from oil cooler seals and OPRV shadiness.... That's just off the top of my head...
09-08-2011, 05:35 PM
#6
Hey that looks like the guy in the Crapler-Jeep CJ-7
On a serious note, just because a shop is popularly reputable doesn't mean that the high school drop out wasn't given your car to practice on. Who needs a repair manual right?
On a serious note, just because a shop is popularly reputable doesn't mean that the high school drop out wasn't given your car to practice on. Who needs a repair manual right?
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09-08-2011, 06:46 PM
#10
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i'm very sorry to hear about your financial loss. this **** is by no means any source of amusement. this is serious stuff. i'm gonna say a few things. and i'm gonna step on a few toes.
i hope it helps you all understand where i've been coming from the past couple of years.... i got like this a shocking story to tell you all. and it starts like this; when i was a kid, when we dumped thousands of dollars into our cars, we ended up with is totally bizarre result;
the cars actually went faster !
it was 1985 and i had started college in San Diego. a long drive. i wanted a car for La Jolla for surfing the incredible points and reefs of the area around and north of La Jolla.... so i bought me a Chevy Malibu with and old decrepid V6 engine... drove it home to Boston after my first year of school and didn't do that tired engine any favors....
anyway, at work, i had some very good friends who introduced me to some really cool guys in the automotive trade who swore about this V8 chevy engine 'thing' [i ended up dropping a 440 Chrysler engine in and adding GM's longest highway gear, (a 2.29:1)] in the rear end, so now i had a wind driven cruise ship for sailing the interstate between 90 and 120 mph, and making it to San Diego in just couple of days....
anyway, back to the SBC.... i didn't hesitate to ask, (grandfather of Bobby Santos, nascar driver in the Nationwide Series) "if these engines are so great why did all my father's 305 engines run like **** and crap the bed?"
the response was, "well, we've got racing to thank. nascar and the nhra people... and way better parts to put inside (internals).... and the engine design is solid..,."
and these guys were absolutely right... the parts that had become available for building engines for maximum output and durability had been developed over 3 decades in the aftermarket, and racing programs... you could new build the low-tech equivalent of a car for the street with 'aircraft' reliability.
the next thing i learned was pretty basic.... build a car with at least 100 horsepower for every thousand pounds of sheetmetal and you'd have yourself a pretty fun car !! build it with 125 horsepower for every thousand pounds and you'd be really knocking on the door....
i learned about an extremely fast car you could build for low money, but dropping a strong sbc, in a vega/monza variant, and changing the rear-end gears... the results would be a car that really screwed.... then one day in 1986 i discovered the 944 and 944T.... and learned about it's superior '50/50 transaxle' design, and great handling.... i looked at that car, and saw that it was shaped like an egg... and got to thinking about going really fast. saw the Bob Norwood Ferrari GTO and Cartech Mustang... these were true hotrods, but could cut through the wind a lot better than all those old, ****box '70s cars....
but i've been preaching for 2 years now on Rennlist..... that the thousands of dollars we sink into our powerplants are ridiculous. i've talked about doing my belts one last time and not even bothering to ever change them. because ever last cent should be saved for the eventuality of installing a real engine in one of our cars.
so here it is:
if you're a purist, and you're not unwilling to spend $30~80 K or more to go 100,000 miles, and do it the right way, then go talk to the guys at Lindsay Racing, Powerhaus, or other proper engine builder. otherwise, change the belts every once in a blue moon. change your rod bearings.
when the time comes, if you've go to master engine builder (whatever that is), spend thousands of dollars, and if lady luck is on your side, and you're not running too much boost, things just might go your way.... contrary to the proper procedures; there have been many who've come along and said, 'these Porsche engines (including the S2 and Variocams) are straightforward designs, requiring straightforward builds....
but is this what we've seen? no way. not even close. go down the wrong path and be prepared to become another statistic when you're victimized by another Porsche, 4-cylinder rebuild that has failed to result in a daily drivable car. it's not like you all haven't been given fair warning.... there's hundreds of similar stories on the 4 cylinder pages of Rennlist.
so, do all the maintenance for your semi-exotic four cylinder engines and enjoy your cars. but when the day comes, (and it is going to come).... do yourself a favor and consult with Government Motors Corporation and their 2 billion dollar, engine develpment program...
they knocked off about 160 pounds off your granddaddy's sbc... and added about 150 horses... and with the new technology, modern synthetic, 0w/5w-30s oils, get ready to stuff the biggest, baddest engine you can fit in there. and drive a fast car.....
when you're done, you won't need to rev the car past 4,500 rpm just to get it to glide forward normally like a Chevy Camaro does when you barely touch the gas.... as i mentioned earlier, 25 years ago, when we dumped thousands of dollars into our cars, the result was that they actually went faster. an idea that seems, too often forgotten in the 944/968 world.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/v8s-rule/
V8′s Rule!
By Bob Elton on July 25, 2006
All cars should have a V8...
For one thing, the modern eight cylinder engine is inherently balanced; it has completely overlapping power impulses. In other words, one cylinder fires before the previous cylinder has finished contributing, creating a much smoother power delivery with fewer impulses. That’s why a V8 can use the same drivetrain components as a much smaller four cylinder engine with half the displacement. There is no need for secondary balance shafts, and no unpleasant vibrations to annoy the passengers and reduce the life of the exhaust system and other accessories. It’s the smoothest engine configuration money can buy.
keep reading; http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/v8s-rule/
i hope it helps you all understand where i've been coming from the past couple of years.... i got like this a shocking story to tell you all. and it starts like this; when i was a kid, when we dumped thousands of dollars into our cars, we ended up with is totally bizarre result;
the cars actually went faster !
it was 1985 and i had started college in San Diego. a long drive. i wanted a car for La Jolla for surfing the incredible points and reefs of the area around and north of La Jolla.... so i bought me a Chevy Malibu with and old decrepid V6 engine... drove it home to Boston after my first year of school and didn't do that tired engine any favors....
anyway, at work, i had some very good friends who introduced me to some really cool guys in the automotive trade who swore about this V8 chevy engine 'thing' [i ended up dropping a 440 Chrysler engine in and adding GM's longest highway gear, (a 2.29:1)] in the rear end, so now i had a wind driven cruise ship for sailing the interstate between 90 and 120 mph, and making it to San Diego in just couple of days....
anyway, back to the SBC.... i didn't hesitate to ask, (grandfather of Bobby Santos, nascar driver in the Nationwide Series) "if these engines are so great why did all my father's 305 engines run like **** and crap the bed?"
the response was, "well, we've got racing to thank. nascar and the nhra people... and way better parts to put inside (internals).... and the engine design is solid..,."
and these guys were absolutely right... the parts that had become available for building engines for maximum output and durability had been developed over 3 decades in the aftermarket, and racing programs... you could new build the low-tech equivalent of a car for the street with 'aircraft' reliability.
the next thing i learned was pretty basic.... build a car with at least 100 horsepower for every thousand pounds of sheetmetal and you'd have yourself a pretty fun car !! build it with 125 horsepower for every thousand pounds and you'd be really knocking on the door....
i learned about an extremely fast car you could build for low money, but dropping a strong sbc, in a vega/monza variant, and changing the rear-end gears... the results would be a car that really screwed.... then one day in 1986 i discovered the 944 and 944T.... and learned about it's superior '50/50 transaxle' design, and great handling.... i looked at that car, and saw that it was shaped like an egg... and got to thinking about going really fast. saw the Bob Norwood Ferrari GTO and Cartech Mustang... these were true hotrods, but could cut through the wind a lot better than all those old, ****box '70s cars....
but i've been preaching for 2 years now on Rennlist..... that the thousands of dollars we sink into our powerplants are ridiculous. i've talked about doing my belts one last time and not even bothering to ever change them. because ever last cent should be saved for the eventuality of installing a real engine in one of our cars.
so here it is:
if you're a purist, and you're not unwilling to spend $30~80 K or more to go 100,000 miles, and do it the right way, then go talk to the guys at Lindsay Racing, Powerhaus, or other proper engine builder. otherwise, change the belts every once in a blue moon. change your rod bearings.
when the time comes, if you've go to master engine builder (whatever that is), spend thousands of dollars, and if lady luck is on your side, and you're not running too much boost, things just might go your way.... contrary to the proper procedures; there have been many who've come along and said, 'these Porsche engines (including the S2 and Variocams) are straightforward designs, requiring straightforward builds....
but is this what we've seen? no way. not even close. go down the wrong path and be prepared to become another statistic when you're victimized by another Porsche, 4-cylinder rebuild that has failed to result in a daily drivable car. it's not like you all haven't been given fair warning.... there's hundreds of similar stories on the 4 cylinder pages of Rennlist.
so, do all the maintenance for your semi-exotic four cylinder engines and enjoy your cars. but when the day comes, (and it is going to come).... do yourself a favor and consult with Government Motors Corporation and their 2 billion dollar, engine develpment program...
they knocked off about 160 pounds off your granddaddy's sbc... and added about 150 horses... and with the new technology, modern synthetic, 0w/5w-30s oils, get ready to stuff the biggest, baddest engine you can fit in there. and drive a fast car.....
when you're done, you won't need to rev the car past 4,500 rpm just to get it to glide forward normally like a Chevy Camaro does when you barely touch the gas.... as i mentioned earlier, 25 years ago, when we dumped thousands of dollars into our cars, the result was that they actually went faster. an idea that seems, too often forgotten in the 944/968 world.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/v8s-rule/
V8′s Rule!
By Bob Elton on July 25, 2006
All cars should have a V8...
For one thing, the modern eight cylinder engine is inherently balanced; it has completely overlapping power impulses. In other words, one cylinder fires before the previous cylinder has finished contributing, creating a much smoother power delivery with fewer impulses. That’s why a V8 can use the same drivetrain components as a much smaller four cylinder engine with half the displacement. There is no need for secondary balance shafts, and no unpleasant vibrations to annoy the passengers and reduce the life of the exhaust system and other accessories. It’s the smoothest engine configuration money can buy.
keep reading; http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/v8s-rule/
09-08-2011, 07:13 PM
#11
Got Nothin'
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Got it. I should have had a v8....
I could have put a 968 motor in...
There are many options I could have chosen. The original motor in my car went 25 years or so before it failed. In the analysis, I thought that maybe a rebuilt motor would give me even 7 years with normal maintenance I would be happy.
What I did not expect was this impasse between the two shops, and me getting stuck with a bill.
I could have put a 968 motor in...
There are many options I could have chosen. The original motor in my car went 25 years or so before it failed. In the analysis, I thought that maybe a rebuilt motor would give me even 7 years with normal maintenance I would be happy.
What I did not expect was this impasse between the two shops, and me getting stuck with a bill.
09-08-2011, 07:22 PM
#12
09-08-2011, 07:36 PM
#14
09-08-2011, 07:38 PM
#15
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Super long angered post yada yada yada
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2006/07/v8s-rule/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2006/07/v8s-rule/
I'm wondering the same thing, the information is all over here, but I've never payed much attention. I'm thinking a regular ol' 350 will be just fine for college...