I've now tried every tip in this thread including installing it dry with only an tiny tiny amount of sealant in the corners of the hoops. I finally thought I had it. It was perfect all around after installing it as described above, so I assembled my car. After 10 min of running the gasket popped out and split in both rear corners and oil is now dripping onto the x-pipe. I'm giving up for now, might even cancel the insurance and hand in the plates. I can't believe how impossible this job has turned out to be.

 

You might have excessive blowby causing the gasket to leak. Pull the dipstick to check for blowby.

 

I can only imagine how frustrated you are.

The first gasket I installed was damaged when it was pinched by being out of position at the rear hoop…didn’t know it was damaged so simply repositioned it and torqued down. I ran RTV all along the back corners and bolts. That one lasted about 500 miles before it started pushing out at the back and I could see the torn section and oil escaping.

The second gasket I installed with red RTV at the crank hoop corners only, allowed to set-up and torqued just as Joe P. (M758) described. I’ve covered about 5K miles without any gasket movement.

The way you’ve described your gasket installation, I would think you’d have no issues.

A few questions…
Do you know if this motor has excessive crankcase pressure?
Are you using an OE Porsche gasket?
Are the aluminum gasket spacers all the same height?
Is your oil pan damaged?
Is the bolt and or block threads preventing even torque?

Did you clean the gasket? I don’t know if this has been discussed, but when I received my gaskets both were covered with a powder substance. I didn’t pay much attention to the first one, but cleaned the second with simple green before fitting.
Hopefully others have more definitive ideas.

 

Thanks, you are absolutely right.

Do you know if this motor has excessive crankcase pressure?
no but it has only done 62k miles and the leak down test was spot on

Are you using an OE Porsche gasket?
I don't know. I had no luck with the Victor Reinz gasket, the last three after it were from the local p-car dealer. I don't know if they were OE

Are the aluminum gasket spacers all the same height? yes

Is your oil pan damaged?
Yes. there is evidence of it having taken a hit in the drivers side rear corner. Does not look like a hard hit, only 2 fins have some damage.

Is the bolt and or block threads preventing even torque? No

 

Are your ISV and crankcase hoses reversed on the charge pipe / j-boot?

 

Will check the houses but I doubt it.
I think you guys are paying too much attention to the fact that it popped when running. I think it was just waiting to pop and the hot oil was all the lubrication it needed. Remember it took 3 gaskets just to be able to torque it down properly, and none of those ruined gaskets got to experience a running engine. They simply slipped out as soon as any torque was applied. It took 3 gaskets and 5 tries to get this one to seat properly. I even used wooden blocks clamped around the engine to ensure it did not pop when torquing. I held the rear corners in place by jamming floor tiles between the flywheel and the gasket.

 

What about the torque wrench calibration? Could it be you are way off and over torquing? I did it to a valve cover on a Mazda years ago. Just a thought, so sorry about your trouble so far. I am planning on doing mine soon and this scares the hell out of me...

 

I think you guys are paying too much attention to the fact that it popped when running.

You could be right because this is NOT the norm…

Simply put you’re working with two flat surfaces, block, pan and a gasket between. The pan could be tweaked ever so slightly.

 

I have been considering this as well, but I always thought the pan looked well engineered and stiff. I also thought that the massive amount of bolts would clamp it down onto the inserts and straighten any small imperfections there might be.

I've checked three different torque wrenches against each other, after having one calibrated. They were all spot on.

When I can gather the motivation to remove the pan I will have it inspected on a stone measuring table.

 

Did it pop only where you applied the tiny tiny pit of sealant?

... Do it dry...

Oh I don't use a torque wrench. Just by hand, Wrist tight using a 6" long 1/4" ratchet. I hold it with one hand and twist the wrist till it is "tight", but I am, not really forcing it at all. Just snug.

100% sucess rate for me on 5-6 pan gaskets on an engine stand or in the car.

 

Nope. No sealant on that bit, but I did use sealant in that area on a previous try. I'll snap some photos of the problem area later tonight.

I don't understand how you succeed in getting the correct bolt stretch. I would worry that a bolt would come loose. Once it is leaking there is no way you can stop it by re-inserting and retightening a missing bolt. Besides, I don't trust my wrists.

I'm considering using a citrus based solvent, perhaps loctite, on the flanges before installing the new gasket. This type of solvent is very powerful and removes most residues. Would anyone recommend against this?

 

Alright. I promised some photos so here they are.
Images 1 and 2.
The tears in the Victor Reinz gasket that was on the car for 300km are clearly visible. This gasket was installed when the engine was on the stand. Completely clean except for the Loctite oil pan RTV in the corners. There is a big difference between the VR gasket which is smooth and shows no marks from the molding process but which is much less supple and seems more prone to cracking an tearing.

Image 3.
A generic gasket next to the Victor Reinz gasket. Casualties of war.

Image 4.
A close up of the generic brand gasket which shows how far it has been squished out by the pan and how little gasket material is actually left on the flanges to make a seal. No tears in this one. This one was installed in desperation using a liberal spread of Permatex Ultra Grey which was left to partially set before torquing. It squished out straight away and was discarded before the pan was even filled with oil.

Image 5.
The amount of oil leaking onto the x-pipe after a 10 min stationary warmup.

Image 6.
Front left corner (upper) Shows how much the gasket has squished out after warming the engine. This was flush with the flange before seeing a heat cycle. No leak here, but the same amount of protrusion in the rear is causing the significant leak seen in image 4. It all depends on wether there is an insert there or not. If the gasket comes out this much where there is an insert no more material will be left between the flanges and a leak is guaranteed.

Image 7.
A bad leak in the front lower corner. I think it comes from the small protrusion, but it may also be a bad bearing housing o-ring on the lower balance shaft. I will verify this tomorrow.

 

Thanks for the photos, they always help.

Why did you change the pan gasket in the first place? Was it pushing out and leaking prior to your first attempt?

The amount of protrusion at the front corners does not look excessive. I’d look elsewhere for that leak. If the protrusion at the back corners is the same again I’d be looking for other possible sources.

I’ll post some photos from my pan tomorrow to compare.

 

Thanks. I agree that the front protrusion needs further investigation. I will do a thorough check in that area for other leaks.

The protrusion at the back is much worse because of the insert. The gasket has protruded far enough for the outer edge around the insert to actually come out. I can clearly see the edge of the sunken area around the insert.

The photos show the weakest areas in the front and in the back. Next to the hoop there is only a millimeter or so of engine block to support the gasket. This is on the inside of the engine. Any movement in this area during torquing will allow oil to flow into the bolt hole and seep out around the bolt threads. If the outer part of the gasket shifts or tears in this area, the leak will be quite large.

 

Looks either over torqued it or you have damage to block or pan surface.